Posted on 04/13/2006 12:18:35 PM PDT by Senator Bedfellow
Some of us are crying.
Thanks for your kind remarks in post #451...I agree fully about conservative texan mom...shes a really good asker of questions, and she is funny...and when one of the more informed posters posts links with additional information, I am sure that she reads the info, just doesnt wave it off, like so many others do...
Regarding your post #452...I dont think discussing older folks going back to school, is too much off the subject....it always happens, on just about any thread on FR, side subjects of interest pop up and get discussed...
One of my cousins went to the University of Illinos, at Navy Pier(the old days), in Chicago...he used to tell me about this really old man, who must have been in his 80s, who was in his second year there as a student...he always dressed in a suit and tie, and always looked very proper...of course, most of the students there, when they first encountered him, thought he was a prof...but no, he was a student, just like them...he was considered by the profs to be an excellent student, and he actually was quite popular with the other students...unfortunately he died during his second year as a student...but he apparently died, happy, getting himself back to school...so he proves the points, that one is never too old to go back to college...
Neither my dad nor my mom ever went to college...mom was a housewife, dad a skilled Machinist(he worked for Sunbeam, at the Browne and Sharpe machine, which he called 'screw' machines to get make people give him a second glance)...but altho they never went to college, they absolutely adored reading, and passed that on to me...my fondest memories of my dad are when he was traipse around the house, wearing his pj bottoms only, with a T-shirt, and a hat on his head, and his pipe in his mouth, and a large stack of books under his arm...he would be headed up to his room in the attack, where he could retreat from the hustle and bustle of mom and me and my brother, and engage in his many hobbies, and read his beloved books...when he was done for that session, he would come down again, all his books under his arm, and join the family...that stack of books, went everywhere with him...he always carried a Bible, a book about Fishing(his favorite sport), one book or another about the Civil War(his favorite historical topic), another book about wood carving(his favorite hobby), and then another book or two on other various subjects..and oh yes, always a copy of MAD MAGAZINE, whether the magazine itself, or one of numerous pocket books of Mad...
Mom was more into mysteries, books about cooking, and sewing and such...
But my mom and dad, always encouraged me and my brother to read, as they felt reading books, on so many various subjects, was a fine education...
So, now I have really wandered off the point of this thread...but for some reason today, I was thinking a lot of my mom and dad(now gone, many years), and it feel quite good to share them with people here...
Well, when I read your great posts, I am sure that the tuition paid was not a waste...perhaps one day, you will go back and finish, and get your degree...thats great about your dad getting his degree when he was 50...bravo to him...
Wow! His kids and grandkids are something; aren't they!?
Wow! His kids and grandkids are something; aren't they!?
Thanks for your kind remarks about me in your post #496..
I don't know about it only working while preaching to the chior. If someone is open minded, I think they they may be able to see the point being made.
Seeing the point isn't the problem--being pursuaded that the point is worth pursuing by science is.
Can you recommend any other good philosophy sites? I find this stuff interesting.
Actually, I wouldn't hang around on the web very much, I'd hang around at a library, or pick up one of those multi-volume references, and decide who to pursue after digging into that for a while. Copleston, I would guess, would probably still be my recommendation, but if you aren't that ambitious, I thought Durant's "The Story of Philosophy" and Russell's "A History of Western Philosophy" were both sound and entertaining. But I have to warn you, that Copleston is more sympathetic to your case than either of those previous two authors. There are other ways to go, but you did ask me what I recommended.
One of the conflicts that arise in these threads is that some are trying to debate science with philosophy, and they don't realize it. Then they wonder why they can't make a valid argument. For example, ID is a philosophy. If someone wishes to debate it's validity, or not, science is the wrong arena.
Yea, well, I dunno. I don't know much science that didn't live next door to some sort of philosophy, at one time or another, and I don't regard ID as categorically not-a-science, it's just not a science to be taken terribly seriously at the moment, based on the merits of the evidence. Kinda like crop circles, cold-fusion or the healing power of crystal pyramids, any one of which might conceivably stumble onto slam-dunk evidence that will put it firmly onto the science table.
When I look around at the other posts on this thread, I'm kind of embarassed for you. :(
"Some of us are crying."
Hopefully it's in laughter... :)
Whatever Pasteur did, worked!
"Whatever Pasteur did, worked!"
But it can't be proved. :)
How about those quotes you posted that I dessicated? :) Pretty cool, huh? :)
It's quite possible that some of the skulls in the "survey" were extinct animal species, unknown to present man.
My own faith is in the Bible which, day by day, is being proven historically correct. We can't deny that Israel, Egypt, Pakistan, etc., ever existed because they're still in the here and now.
I also believe that people were more intelligent eons ago and, if anything, we're devolving.
"Pride goeth before the fall."
Hi andyandmikesmom,
I don't mind talking about personal details. I think it helps us connect as people and tends to personalize the discussion in a positive way. It makes us more than words on a screen. I swear some people treat these threads like a video game, with a eye towards scoring points.
My mom and pop came from different sides of the tracks. My dad's parents were educated, genteel people. My paternal grandmother had an education degree and was a schoolteacher, and my paternal grandfather was an electrical engineer. My mom's side of the family were blue collar, and a little more earthy, and they were proud of their high school diplomas. My maternal grandfather worked his way up from being oil field trash, to owning a machine shop, to owning a oilfield tools company and holding several patents -- all with little formal education.
My folks were always supportive of my decisions. They came to visit me when I graduated from boot camp. It's still one of the most memorable occasions of my life. I don't feel the same way about graduation from high school. I don't believe my high school education prepared me particularly well for life as an adult. It's ironic now I'm interested in electrical engineering. It was my grandpa's field, and I think he'd be pround. He left me a whole lot of books on the subject. It's kind of a hoot reading his old calculus books from the 30s and 40s, because with the exception of pretty graphics in my textbooks, the subject is the same.
It's hard to imagine for me, but I gather from them that in the 1930s when they grew up, having a high school diploma was an feather in your cap and having a university degree was a real accomplishment. It seems to me that having a university degree today is equivalent to having a high school diploma was for them. I can only imagine what the future will be like if we extrapolate into the future. At some point, having a university education will almost be a necessity for most technical jobs and professional positions. It's almost like that today.
Trying to relate this discussion to the topic at hand, this is why I tend to argue on the pro-science side in these debates. Technical and scientific training is only going to become more important for national compeditiveness of the U.S. in the future. I resist any trend to teach culturally-sensitive science. Physics or biology doesn't care if you're Republican or Democrat, Christian or Jew or atheist. In my opinion, teaching science with a mind towards cultural sensitivity is taking technical training in the wrong direction. It waters the subject down. Science class is one of the last bastions of critical thinking and problem solving in school. Science curriculum, therefore, must present the prevailing scientific viewpoint and do so in such a way to develop problem-solving skills.
Ah, that was great, the stories of your family....I too, like stories about people and their families, I believe, like you, this stories and histories, make us seem all the more human to each other, rather just some random person we are conversing with via the internet...now, some posters do not like to reveal anything about themselves, and thats fine too...but I enjoy hearing about other peoples families, their histories, and their lives...and I, being a blabber mouth, like to talk about mine...
I agree completely with what you say, in your last paragraph...Physics, biology, any true science, does not care anything for your politics, or your religion...it should be outside of those considerations...I agree it is in science where critical thinking, and problem solving should be able to operate, regardless of ones political leanings, or particular religious affiliation, or lack of personal religious belief...
What really irritates me, most of all, is when scientific matters, are decided by some, only in light of what they perceive that God seems to be saying to them, literally from the Bible..they never allow that other folks can read the same passages, and get a whole other valuable meaning..those folks never, ever will admit that how they read the Bible, is only their own personal interpretion, rather than the absolute Word of God...those who claim they are 'speaking' for God, are to my mind, the ones who are least likely to to actually have the great 'faith', that they claim they have...thats just my own opinion...
Anyway, I do suppose, that this Crevo debate will continue to continue...I never really expect it to end....
Ah, time for me to leave soon, time to color Easter Eggs(gosh, I hope no one runs onto this thread, and just has to tell me that coloring eggs for Easter is such a pagan act, and I will be condemned for it)...
Nice that you spent time coloring Easter Eggs with your niece...6 is a wonderful age...still sweet enough, still believing enough...enjoy it, they do grow so very fast...
My younger son will be coming in for Easter...I always make a huge meal, as I do so enjoy cooking for him...and of course, he says he has to come down and collect his Easter Basket, full of about 20lbs of candy...he just laughs about that, because he is 31, and does not eat much candy at all..He tells me, he keeps a little for himself, and takes the rest to work...his co-workers appreciate it...I told him, thats fine, no matter how old you get, you are still my little boy, and dang it, you will enjoy your Easter Basket...should we both live a long, long time, I can still see myself making him up an Easter basket when I am about 80, and hes about 50...its my 'mother job', to provide my baby boy his Easter Basket, regardless of our ages...
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