'Today': W's Poll Numbers Fallen - and They Can't Get Up

Today Show/NewsBusters ^ | Mark Finkelstein

[mallardx]

Finally...an intelligent post!

[RetiredArmy]

I agree with one thing, big speeches and staff changes ain't gonna get er done. How about actually doing something on the border issue. But, since we are about 20 years too late on that issue, there is probably little he can do.

[tobyhill]

The rally that drew 200 was on a Saturday.

Modern Politics hasn't become anything it hasn't always been.

[tobyhill]

So this whole Guest Worker talk is just a bunch of government lies about their true thoughts on the true effectiveness for such programs? I hope that everything the Government thinks or does is not just a conspiracy to you.

[dirtboy]

The rally that drew 200 was on a Saturday. Modern Politics hasn't become anything it hasn't always been.

Folks who have jobs have to also do stuff on the weekends, dude.

And a more critical point is, the pro-illegal rallies did a fair amount of harm to their cause. It isn't just the size of the rally that matters, but also the message and the images.

[dirtboy]

So this whole Guest Worker talk is just a bunch of government lies about their true thoughts on the true effectiveness for such programs?

Modern politicians mislead us about the effectiveness of their pet programs? Who wudda thunk?

[chris1]

No, here is the deal.

Right now, both illegals and businesses love the status quo. These rallies are about the gov't not upsetting the apple cart, not about reform.

The businesses love this because they get illegals who will work for less money, no regulations, not benefits, people who are less likely to file a claim if injured on the job. The businesses don't pay FICA or workers comp on these people.

The illegals love it because they work for cash and send the same home to Mexico for when they go back. On 5K, they can live like a king.

Without strict border enforcement, this plan will only encourage millions of more illegals to undermine the new "guests" who will now demand a pay increase since they will now have to pay taxes. The businesses who want cheap labor will just demand cheaper labor in the form of new illegals.

That is why I said that.

[tobyhill]

I just hope none of your business clients hire illegal aliens or undocumented workers because you as an attorney would have to represent them whether you agreed with them or not.

[Chuck54]

Exactly!!! Democrats would refuse to close the border! They also would allow Iran and North Korea to continue unfettered with their nuclear programs! Oh wait....

Nah, they would do just what you'd want 'em to do. Poll the public and crawl back into your shell, hope they don't harm you guys, just the conservatives. Right?

[chris1]

How do think I know so much about this stuff??????????

Yet, some of the people on here act like I know nothing.
I see this garbage every day.

[ModelBreaker]

I have used the Bush ping list because I think the people on that list even if we disagree on immigration are willing to come up with a rationale discussion not just spamming every thread. We have a choice -- we can work together to weed out the people here to disrupt who have now attached themselves to the immigration issue or we can fade away.

Hi PhiKap. Long time since we communicated.

I agree with the tone issues you raise in your post. We're the good guys and W is partly on our side--way more than the dems. I would like to see respect for his accomplishments as well as more respectful criticism for his goofs.

As to sorting folks out. Gonna be hard to do. There are times when I am screamingly frustrated with W on issues like immigration, CFR, Prescription Drugs and spending--all of which clearly involved anti-conservative positions. Some of my frustration has probably comes out in posts.

OTOH, W has proved he will prosecute the WOT aggressively and proactively, even if it means the second guessers will be able to point to mistakes made in that process and say AHA@#! If necessary, I believe W will use nuclear bunker busters in Iran. His SC appointments (other than Miers) have been great. And, on most business issues, he has a good record--tax cuts, bankruptcy reform and tort reform. These are non-trivial points because no viable democrat has any agenda other than surrender to OBL and collectivize our nation as quickly as possible.

And I think that's true for a lot of good conservatives--we get frustrated and it comes out online. And sometimes we forget that trashing W advances the cause of surrender to OBL.

IMHO, the hardest issue to remember this balance on is illegals. That issue is as time-urgent and as crucial to the future of our nation as is the WOT and the Supreme Court--in my opinion, all other issues pale in importance beside these three. And on immigration, W is just plain wrong.

But even at that point, the balance still says that joining Katie Couric in bashing W is counterproductive. W may be wrong on immigration. But the dems are decisively wrong on all three issues. And, if we don't like W's immigration bill, imagine what Harry Reid's will look like--he'll be sending buses to Juarez with welcome signs.

How do you distinguish the legitimately frustrated folks from the ones who are deliberate DNC infiltrators, which I am sure abound here? I don't know. I know that when the Miers controversy was in full swing, I started punching abuse on posters (on both sides) who got nasty. And the moderators slapped ME down. So they don't want to hear from us on that subject.

[chris1]

Because I see this garbage from both the inside out and the outside in, I have a perspective that most do not.

Yet, I am derided for my views as some nut job.

This illegal immigration disaster undermines many many other areas in our lives. It definately undermines wages for legal people. There is no doubt about that.

[MissAmericanPie]

You are a sweet gentle person, it just shines through. You look at these sweet illegals as being just like you and for the most part they are.

I myself live next door to the sweetest illegals on the planet and they are great neighbors. I had rather have them for neighbors than anyone else I can think of, even some family members. They have fiestas, sometimes late into the nite, and while I find myself wondering if I am in Mexico, while the mariachi music plays, I have been invited to their parties and enjoyed myself.

These poor people purchased the house next door through HUD who never placed a sign anywhere saying the home was in foreclosure, there was no sign ever displayed that the home was abandoned or for sale. I just woke up one morning and there they were, my new illegal neighbors. The third such family on my block. They did not have social security numbers but they had filed for a tax number which was used instead of the SS number in the forms to purchase the house.

Now as a patriot, and a concerned descendant of the American Revolution it is on me to discern the dangerous intent of globalist to use these sweet people as a means to an end to achieve their goal of making these folks the majority in the land, as this group is given citizenship and voting rights, followed on their heels by the next wave and the next wave, whose will desire to see the end of the nation state in favor of it being merely a no borders Trade Zone. Which of course as the new majority they will think is a wonderful idea.

As a patriot, educated in the underhanded agenda of globalist elite to use these sweet people to fulfill their agenda to kill the nation state in favor of a borderless one world, one hemisphere at at time, trade zone. I have decided that I cannot allow the gentle naivete of my sweet neighbors to be a useful tool in the globalist agenda, no matter how sweet and unaware they are.

The father works as a foreman for a landscape company, or did at last check, he is paid under the table which allows him to do a lot of improvements to his place that I cannot afford to do to mine because of the taxes I pay, yet I don't resent his joy at such a windfall. They live quietly, keep to themselves except when they come over with their English speaking school age children to have a simple talk about gardening and how I am doing as a new widow. I am sincerely fond of them.

But these sweet people are being used for an agenda that they are completely unaware of. The agenda of globalist to wipe from the face of the earth my sovereign nation. To dissolved it's borders, Constitution, Bill of Rights, and culture, and turn it into a border less trade zone, destroying our Constitution, Bill of Rights, and sovereignty, in favor of International Law and it's definition of human rights placed above our second seat Constitution and Bill of Rights.

This is a concept far above my neighbors ability to grasp, given their limited education and unworldliness. So it comes down to my understanding of just what the globalist game plan is. That being to flood the nation with illegals some benign, many not so benign who harbor destructive and resentful agendas aimed at the removal of the USofA as a nation, in favor of being known as a border less trade zone.

Can I allow the sweetness of these people to be used to destroy all my ancestors fought and died for, no matter how sweet and unaware they themselves may be. No I cannot. I am placed in the sad position of having to do my best to stymie such a future for my nation. The villains here are the globalist who desire to kill my cultural identity and the institution set in place by our brilliant ancestors. It's a bad situation all the way around but one that must be faced head on and defeated, as my new neighbors are joined every day by millions of like useful tools, to be followed by millions upon millions of the same until the damage is done and the only choice left legitimate citizens to take it back at whatever cost. Globalist have declared war on us and all we hold dear. I have to ask myself just how dear many equally sweet, but unaware legitimate citizens are in being smart enough to hold it dear as they assume nothing can ever happen to the intuitions that guard their freedoms. So it falls to folks like myself to sound the warning. Not a comfortable position to be in, but a necessary one.

[tobyhill]

Oh, I'm not crediting you with knowing so much on the issue because I don't know that you do? The squabble between people are not so much that everyone knows that there's a problem but the direction on how to solve the problem. A back and forth name calling and innuendos doesn't find solutions it just pisses people off. Some don't believe that Guest Worker program is the solution and some do and they may never agree but for the government to do nothing is worse than just people disagreeing on the process as long as the borders get sealed.

[chris1]

If they seal the border, this problem will go away very quickly.

[CyberAnt]

FOR THOSE WHO DON'T GO TO THE DOSE ON A REGULAR BASIS:

A Day in the Life of President Bush - (photos) - 4.11.06 ^

Posted by DrDeb to ohioWfan; snugs; MJY1288; mystery-ak; LUV W; ilovew; DollyCali; NordP; pollyannaish; onyx; ...
On News/Activism ^ 04/11/2006 7:23:03 PM PDT · 112 of 160 ^


Lot's of bogus polling data yesterday and today; the following is my take (as posted on another thread initially):

IT'S THE SAMPLE STUPID!

ABCNews/WashingtonPost
53% Democrat/Democrat-leaning Independents
42% Republican/Republican-leaning Independents
+11 Democrat . . . 'nuf said
[FYI: Even though this is one of the most skewed WP polls I've ever analyzed, they still only managed to reduce the President's JA rating by 1 point: from 38% to 37% . . . Of course, if an HONEST pollster were to re-weight the data, the President's JA rating would be in the mid-40s!]

AP/Ipsos-Reid, CBSNews/NYTimes and Gallup/USAToday also deliberately skew their samples to keep the President's JA rating below 40% . . . Bottomline: The MSM can skew the opinion polls for their preferred party/candidate but they can't win the only poll that counts -- the poll on election day!

IF YOU WANT TO VIEW THE RESULTS OF A MORE LEGITIMATE POLLSTER (who still oversamples Democrats, just not as absurdly as the MSM pollsters), visit the RASMUSSEN website:

Today, he puts the President's JA rating at 43% approve 55% disapprove [During the last 1 1/2 'controversial' weeks, the President's JA rating has remained steady at 42%-45%, i.e., there has been no decline in the President's ratings despite the 'immigration' hysteria and rising gas prices!]http://www.rasmussenreports.com/Bush_Job_Approval.htm

BTW: A President's job approval rating IS NOT a popularity rating.

A President's JA rating reflects the public's perception of the economy; a President's PERSONAL APPROVAL rating reflects the public's view of the man!

FYI: During Reagan and GHWB's era, Gallup, et al, always coupled their JA rating with a personal approval Rating ... Both Reagan and GHWB often scored very low on the former, but almost always scored quite high on the latter.

Conversely, Clinton only scored well with his JA rating (and only in his second term when the public thought the economy was doing well); however, he could never get his personal approval ratings above 40%. For this reason, the MSM pollsters dropped the personal approval rating and started promoting the JA rating as a 'popularity' rating -- anything to make Clinton look better!

Currently, The Battleground Poll is the only pollster still producing a personal approval rating for the President. According to Battleground, the President's PERSONAL APPROVAL RATING has never dipped below 60%!!!!

Bottomline: President George W Bush remains PERSONALLY POPULAR and he will continue to lead despite the MSM's unrelenting attempts to uncut his presidency with bogus opinion polls.

[tobyhill]

I agree and from the start of this issue I've wanted a tough border security first and then if they can get some sort of appropriate Guest Worker Program to attach it then fine. I expect them to have one by Summer but I guarantee with all the opinions out there it's only going to please 30% tops with or without a guest worker program.