Has Homosexuality Always Been Incompatible With Military Service?

WallBuilders ^ | David Barton

[Billthedrill]

It depends not on the military but on the underlying society, and that's as it should be. Certainly there were several known militaries in which it was common and in their parent societies it was treated differently than it is in modern Western ones. There are schools of historical revisionism ("Sparta Reconsidered" is one) that are attempting either to deny its presence or put it in a new perspective, but evidence in the classics abounds.

So the strict answer to the question is "is homosexuality always compatible with military service?" is demonstrably "no." The question "is homosexuality incompatible with current Western military practice?" is quite a different question and should be dealt with from the perspective of its acceptance in our society, and not those of days gone by. We're not Macedonians or Thebans or Corinthians or Spartans, after all.

[little jeremiah]

Mexican illegals + Muslims, who needs Goths? Or was it Vandals.

[Uncle Vlad]

You're correct, but the number was closer to 300,000.

[359Henrie]

Don't know about Washington, but their doing a good job in L.A.

[curmudgeonII]

The unfortunate thing is that virtually every thing that we know about Sparta has been written by its enemies; and, consequently [at least in my opinion] highly suspect.

[Waco]

What were they called in George's days, Liberals?

[Jaysun]

Sparta teaches us this: reject the idea of an all powerful state and embrace patriarchy.

[xzins]

Going to original source material, can you actually prove that the Spartan military tolerated homosexuality?

I ask because when the movie "Alexander" came out, there was a great effort to suggest that Alexander practiced homosexuality.

What became evident was that there was only conjecture supporting that opinion.

Now, I don't know the answer to this question. I am curious, though, for the actual support undergirding the opinion that the Spartan military practiced homosexuality. For all I know they did.

But I'd like to see the proof.

[Alexander Rubin]

Right on. It wasn't blatantly homosexual, but unfortunately pederasty was an accepted practice. However, it probably wasn't as common as it was in, say, Athens.

[Alexander Rubin]

They did tolerate homosexuality, probably. It was a widely accepted practice in Greece. I don't think it was as common as some make it out to be, though. Also, I suspect the pederasty was also largely an upper-class thing, at least in the other Greek cities.

And historical accounts suggest that Alexander probably was bi-sexual. He fell in love with Roxanne and was married, however. Additionally, he was Macedonian, not Spartan. Although one of his senior generals (who was his father's senior general before him) was Spartan. Parmenion.

[Alexander Rubin]

Excellent post.

[xzins]

We got in the Alexander discussion and no one could come up with anything but conjecture.

I'd be interested in some chapter, verse, etc. from a book of the era that demonstrates Spartan homosexuality.

[Pan_Yans Wife]

In the UCMJ shacking up is still against the rules, according to article 134. But, it is ignored. Isn't this the same policy with homosexuality?

[Alexander Rubin]

Written by Spartans or their enemies?

Relatively books written by Spartans exist. High culture wasn't their forte, generally.

Xenophon, Plato and Aristotle deny it. Others (many of them enemies, or those who would probably be hostile to the Spartans) allege it.

[sit-rep]

Lotta words to say pillow biters don't belong around real men.

[sit-rep]

C+

(gut laugh...)

[xzins]

Xenophon, Plato and Aristotle deny it. Others (many of them enemies, or those who would probably be hostile to the Spartans) allege it.

It sounds as if it is speculation, then. Perhaps it is an academic fiction hoped for by pederast classicists.

[twippo]

Why Lesbians Aren't Gay:

http://www.isteve.com/lesvsgay.htm

Mentions differences between Lesbians and Gays, including military issues. Mostly stereotypes that are observable to be mostly true.

[GladesGuru]

"You think the Goths will sack Washington?"

And how else would you describe Marion Barry and his 'constituency'?

[RHINO369]

Here is the thing about pedofiles. 60% of their victims end up because pedofiles themselves, and each pedofile usually molests many children. This means when a society doesn't rid itself of child molestors it spirals out of control. This is probably what happened in ancient greek societies.

Also I believe there are two kind of homosexuals. Those who were molested as a boy, which scrambles their sexual attractions, and those who are just genetically born that way. Either way it seems like its not going to change. So if a large portion of your societies children are getting raped by men, your going to have a very gay and very child molesting society.