Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Anything into Oil
DISCOVER Vol. 27 No. 04 | ^ | April 2006 | Brad Lemley

Posted on 04/08/2006 3:51:10 PM PDT by ckilmer

click here to read article


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-2021-4041-46 next last
To: snowsislander
"Exactly. I still find it hard to believe that anyone is paying $30 a ton for turkey waste (though I imagine that must include a delivery charge that the turkey producer won't see.)"

Turkey droppings (mixed with used sawdust bedding) is Grade-A compost material for landscaping soil. Yes, turkey-offal is really a commodity, as was/is bird guano of all forms.

21 posted on 04/08/2006 7:49:47 PM PDT by CowboyJay (Rough Riders! Tancredo '08)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: RightWhale
"Maybe so, but they cannot compete with oil even now. It would take an actual oil shortage to let that happen, something that does not appear to be in the cards. Cost of oil may increase without limit and still be cheaper than this."

Actually not far off. I'm guessing the product is more refined than ME crude, and might command a slightly higher asking-price. Factor in economy-of-scale efficiencies at industrial, rather than boutique, level of production... They're not far off the mark, at all. I'm wondering if the market-value of the fertilizer by-product has been factored-in to the $80/bbl figure.

22 posted on 04/08/2006 8:04:33 PM PDT by CowboyJay (Rough Riders! Tancredo '08)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: ckilmer

bump


23 posted on 04/08/2006 8:11:25 PM PDT by VOA
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: RightWhale

with world oil prices the way they are--this company can now draw a profit

Maybe so, but they cannot compete with oil even now. It would take an actual oil shortage to let that happen, something that does not appear to be in the cards. Cost of oil may increase without limit and still be cheaper than this.
///////////////
The Carthage plant has been optimized and is expected to turn a small profit. A tax credit has leveled the playing field with other renewable fuels like biodiesel and ethanol.

The fuel Appel makes, known officially as renewable diesel, received a subsidy of $1 per gallon from the Energy Policy Act of 2005, which took effect in January. That boosted the company's income by $42 a barrel, allowing a slim profit of $4 a barrel.


24 posted on 04/08/2006 8:24:57 PM PDT by ckilmer
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: ckilmer
You can find a (large) PDF scan of the original Discover Magazine article here. This technology is my bet for the best (non-nuclear) alternate fuel out there because it actually creates more energy than it uses. and uses garbage as fuel.
25 posted on 04/08/2006 11:42:26 PM PDT by Question_Assumptions
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: ckilmer
Somehow a tax credit doesn't feel like a level playing field. Mano a mano is the real test.
26 posted on 04/09/2006 9:27:32 AM PDT by RightWhale (Off touch and out of base)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 24 | View Replies]

To: CowboyJay

It's not easy to compete with what can be sucked out of the ground for free, the expenses being pipe and fees, leases, taxes, graft, and the US Marines.


27 posted on 04/09/2006 9:30:48 AM PDT by RightWhale (Off touch and out of base)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 22 | View Replies]

To: ckilmer

Its really too bad the economics don't work. Had some hope for this one.


28 posted on 04/09/2006 9:35:56 AM PDT by JustDoItAlways
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: RightWhale

Appel offers no apologies for needing government largesse to make money. "All oil, even fossil-fuel oil, gets government subsidies in the form of tax breaks and other incentives," he says, citing a 1998 study by the International Center for Technology Assessment showing that unsubsidized conventional gasoline would cost consumers $15 a gallon. "Before we got this, I had the only oil in the world that didn't get a subsidy."


29 posted on 04/09/2006 9:54:51 AM PDT by ckilmer
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 26 | View Replies]

To: JustDoItAlways

The Carthage plant has been optimized and is expected to turn a small profit. A tax credit has leveled the playing field with other renewable fuels like biodiesel and ethanol.

The fuel Appel makes, known officially as renewable diesel, received a subsidy of $1 per gallon from the Energy Policy Act of 2005, which took effect in January. That boosted the company's income by $42 a barrel, allowing a slim profit of $4 a barrel.


30 posted on 04/09/2006 9:56:17 AM PDT by ckilmer
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 28 | View Replies]

To: ckilmer
We pay for our oil eventually, whether in other taxes that don't seem to be related, or in military security in places that we wouldn't even look twice at if they didn't have oil.

Since we don't get oil from Iraq, it might be asked why our military is there so big, and then the wide-angle lens has to be used. Europe and Asia get oil from the region, and we get some small amount from Saudi, but since oil is a world commodity, what China buys from the ME affects what we buy from Nigeria. So we do China's work and Europe's work in protecting the oil. Why should we do their work? The oil is that important to us that if waited for China and France/Germany to pick up their share of the workload we would find our oil prices escalating beyond the comfort zone. The free ride is in China and Europe, but since we are the big piece of the world economy we have to do this to remain the big piece.

31 posted on 04/09/2006 10:05:15 AM PDT by RightWhale (Off touch and out of base)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 29 | View Replies]

To: RightWhale

Why should we do their work?

This is an interesting question that I've wondered about myself. Part of the reason is that oil is pegged to the dollar. In order for countries to buy oil they have to pay for it in dollars--and that includes china.

What would bankrupt the USA in a day would be if major oil producing countries decided to peg their oil in another currency. This is something that major minor oil producers like like Iran and Venezuela are already trying to do.


32 posted on 04/09/2006 1:07:47 PM PDT by ckilmer
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 31 | View Replies]

To: RightWhale
"It's not easy to compete with what can be sucked out of the ground for free, the expenses being pipe and fees, leases, taxes, graft, and the US Marines. "

Don't forget exploration, tooling, drilling, and transport costs. It takes more infrastructure to pull crude out of the ground overseas than to produce it from TDP domestically. The seed energy consumption is what's keeping the cost higher, ATM. LP or NG are probably more cost-effective than burning their product for the process.

Why not just harness waste heat from the electrical generation process as part of an integrated Electricity/TDP oil plant? Most of our electrical generation comes from processes that produce waste-heat.

33 posted on 04/09/2006 1:19:45 PM PDT by CowboyJay (Rough Riders! Tancredo '08)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 27 | View Replies]

To: ckilmer
"But even critics say the persistence of a smell does not invalidate the technology."

Oil refineries and landfills reek to high-heaven, as well, but we still manage to find a place for them.

34 posted on 04/09/2006 1:24:20 PM PDT by CowboyJay (Rough Riders! Tancredo '08)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: ckilmer
Recipe for oil independence:

1. Abolish all current fuel tax.

2. Replace with a $50 per barrel tax on imported oil.

3. Announce plans to increase this tax by $1/year in inflationn-adjusted terms 4. Make exceptions for Canada and Mexico, though limit their tax- free exports to the US to current production plus 10%.

5. Watch the innovators go to work.

35 posted on 04/09/2006 1:36:36 PM PDT by cookcounty (Army Vet, Army Dad.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: petro45acp

Don't forget the millions of gallons of sewage generated daily in major cities like New York and LA.

Imagine the money those cities could earn if they scrapped their sewage treatment plants and converted them into TDP facilities.

The municipal government could charge city residents a sewage fee...

...and then sell the oil for a profit.

In essence, they'd be able to collect payment two-fold for one service.

And if that isn't a sweet deal, I don't know what else is.


36 posted on 04/09/2006 4:53:58 PM PDT by gogogodzilla (Raaargh! Raaargh! Crush, Stomp!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: gogogodzilla

True enough. In addition to sewage, think of the dumb-a55 recycling centers. The only "recycle" stream that works at a profit is aluminium. Plastic, glass, and paper are not profitable. The state and local recycling centers enjoy federal subsidies (source: Penn and Teller's "Bull5h1t"). The petroleum recovered from plastic could be really big.


37 posted on 04/10/2006 5:23:44 AM PDT by petro45acp (SUPPORT/BE YOUR LOCAL SHEEPDOG! ("On Sheep, Wolves, and Sheepdogs" by Dave Grossman))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 36 | View Replies]

To: cookcounty
Recipe for oil independence:
1. Abolish all current fuel tax.

2. Replace with a $50 per barrel tax on imported oil.

3. Announce plans to increase this tax by $1/year in inflationn-adjusted terms

4. Make exceptions for Canada and Mexico, though limit their tax- free exports to the US to current production plus 10%.

5. Watch the innovators go to work.

Best Idea I've seen.

38 posted on 04/13/2006 10:36:23 AM PDT by Trinity5
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 35 | View Replies]

To: Trinity5
What I want to know is, when can you get one of these that's about the size of a typical home furnace?

I think the only way you'll get Americans to recycle in a big way will be if you reward them with fuel for their SUVs.

:::: Jan Steinman, Communication Steward, EcoReality -- be the change! ::::

39 posted on 04/20/2006 9:03:24 AM PDT by Bytesmiths
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 38 | View Replies]

To: ckilmer

"What would bankrupt the USA in a day would be if major oil producing countries decided to peg their oil in another currency. This is something that major minor oil producers like like Iran and Venezuela are already trying to do."



Actually, Iraq DID that. In 2000 they transfered their oil for food account into Euros. (Axis country #1) Iran announced it would do the same thing next. (Axis country #2). Then Korea announced it would revalue it's accounts in Euros. See where this is going? One of the reasons we're in Iraq (not the only one) is to make it an example to the rest of the world. Don't mess with our "rack up debt for free" card. When Venezuela started to consider it, the US tried to instigate a coup, and still has Venezuela on it's military radar, except that China stepped in at told us to cool it. And we don't want to mess with China for good reason. They may be "developing" but at least their economy can compete without running a petrodollar ponzai scheme.


40 posted on 04/20/2006 9:54:15 PM PDT by rzs
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 32 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-2021-4041-46 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson