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Irish were Latinos of their day
The Denver Post ^ | 4/01/2006 | Bob Ewegen

Posted on 04/04/2006 5:34:55 PM PDT by neverdem

Today's rancorous debate over immigration has a parallel in the nativist reaction to the mass Irish immigration in the mid-19th century.

Spurred by the potato famine that began in 1845, 3.5 million mostly destitute Irish migrated to America by 1880 - about 7 percent of the population of 50 million. By contrast, today's 11 million unauthorized immigrants, of all nationalities, constitute just 4 percent of our population.

Contemporary immigration foes, like former Gov. Dick Lamm and Rep. Tom Tancredo, claim America can't absorb so many foreign-born without fatal damage to our economy and culture.

Yet, history shows we did just that. Today, there are 43 million Americans of Irish ancestry, a key element of the vibrant alloy that is America.

Today's nativists argue we can't compare today's illegal immigrants to the Irish, because the Irish came here legally. That's technically true, but the 19th century wave was just as uncontrolled, because America had virtually no bars to immigration in those days.

Kenneth Ackerman's book, "Boss Tweed: The Rise and Fall of the Corrupt Pol Who Conceived the Soul of Modern New York," details how the desperate Irish were welcomed at the docks by the political machine that provided the only social safety net in that era.

Tweed minions would help the newcomers find housing and work and, if there was an election in the offing, they would swiftly be naturalized as citizens in mass ceremonies by Tweed's judges, so they could vote for their benefactors.

Cartoonist Thomas Nast, who hated Irish and Catholics with equal fervor, pandered to the nativist bigotry by depicting Irishmen as drunken, subhuman brutes. The accompanying Nast cartoon depicts the role immigrants played in supporting Tweed by showing an Irish thug and a Catholic priest carving up the Democratic Party goose that laid the golden eggs.

But though the Irish were despised, they were still admitted through America's golden door. That's because Americans needed them to do our dirty work.

The first generations of Irish worked largely at unskilled and semiskilled occupations, but their children found themselves working at increasingly skilled trades. By 1900, when Irish Americans made up about 8 percent of the male labor force, they were almost a third of the plumbers, steamfitters and boilermakers. Their places at the bottom of the ladder were taken by newly arrived laborers from southern and eastern Europe.

Today, those dirty, low-paying, jobs are being taken by Latinos. But if history is any guide, the daughter of that Latina who scrubs your floor today may be the doctor who delivers my granddaughter's baby a generation hence.

To some, that is a frightening prospect. But I think Clio, the muse of history, would join with Lady Liberty herself to say:

Bienvenidos, Americanos nuevos.

Bob Ewegen is The Denver Post's deputy editorial page editor.


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Editorial; Government; Mexico; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections; US: Colorado; US: District of Columbia
KEYWORDS: illegalimmigration; immigrantlist; immigration; irish; irishamericans; latinos
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To: MOgirl
Glad to be here, but pretty ticked off about this

I wouldn't get to pissed about this stupid article, it is standard fare from illegal apologists.

161 posted on 04/04/2006 7:07:31 PM PDT by Nachum
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To: dljordan

Many have confused "Irish" with "Scots-Irish". Both of these groups immigrated from the Island of Ireland but are totally different groups. The "Irish" were Catholic and from the "South" of Ireland where the "Scots-Irish" were from Northern Ireland or "Ulster" and were the descendents of Scots from Scotland and were Protestant (Primarily Presbyterians).
Both groups were "Celts".


162 posted on 04/04/2006 7:10:02 PM PDT by BnBlFlag (Deo Vindice/Semper Fidelis)
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To: neverdem

For the heavy users of recreational drugs I have just one thing to say. Immigrants and illegal aliens are NOT THE SAME THING. Latinos already own and rule ALL of South and Central America. I wonder if that's the real reason they all want to come to North America. They want to come here so bad they will lower themselves to doing jobs Americans are too good to do. What a deal.


163 posted on 04/04/2006 7:10:37 PM PDT by FlingWingFlyer (Sacrificing unity and national identity for "diversity" and "multiculturalism" is a really dumb idea)
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To: alarm rider

Indo-European refers to both a category of languages and a racial group, if you believe that Indians are also Caucasian, rather than Asian.

However, race is neither an absolute nor entirely accurate way of grouping peoples- there have been many definitions and categorizations in the past, and Oriental/Occidental is just one of them.

As for the repeated statement that I've been 'politiced rather than educated', you assume a great deal about my age and background, and your assumptions are wrong, I'm afraid, as well as irrelevant to the discussion.


164 posted on 04/04/2006 7:12:35 PM PDT by stormlead
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To: neverdem

It's no wonder everyone is halfway dizzy over this illegal alien invasion, the way such lunatics are spinning it.


165 posted on 04/04/2006 7:13:25 PM PDT by F.J. Mitchell (H-e-e-e-e-lp! I have gotten up and can't get fallen!)
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To: mo
......you see you're just NOT enlightened. Laws in America are NOT supposed to apply equally to all...this is how libs/democrats deal...we'll leave you all alone and selectively apply law as long as you vote left. Ya gotta have a LOT of crooks/lawbreakers for this to work, so ya's gots to have lotsa laws...lotsa government etc. etc. etc.

It's all about the belief that one has The TRUE Truth.

Whether it's a religious fanatic or a Lib, it's about believing you are enlightened and it is your duty, your crusade, to control those who aren't and indoctrinate them until they see the light, too (though, oddly, those who Originally Had The Truth All Along will never accept those they helped see the light as equals--just look at the dems' attitudes toward blacks, and you KNOW what AHM talkin' about).

Liberals are hilarious to me--I'm an atheist--when they FROTH at the mouth over religion and Christian symbols in public places. They are closer to hardcore Muslim fanatics, yet they want you to think they are interested in a truly non-secular society.

They are not. Some here mistake them for being non-secular--I've done it myself--but they are interested in bringing their own godless religion to the masses, in which The State aka The People's Will (funnelled through a board of liberals in charge of all decisions) is the ONLY religion.

We are just all stupid, and the libs will twist reality in order to get us to believe their "truth", and they see nothing wrong with breaking the rules because their goals are just so humanistic and NICE.

They are trying so hard to make this about immigration, because that way they can make their opponents look like mean racists. But it's not about immigration; it's about illegal activity. And I think most people know that, because they've been made so hyper-sensitive to race in this country that they get pissed when someone insinuates they are a racist over what is an issue of legality, not race.

166 posted on 04/04/2006 7:13:48 PM PDT by Darkwolf377 (No respect for conservatives? That's free speech. No respect for liberals? That's hate speech.)
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To: Conservative4Ever
I live in SoCal...what is happening is making me kinda nervous

I live here too. We have had general civil unrest in Los Angeles a number of times that I know of. The Rodney King riots, the Watts riots, and recently widespread prison riots. It seems to be the nature of this area.

I don't think it pays to be nervous though. My kids make me crazy enough :)

167 posted on 04/04/2006 7:16:04 PM PDT by Nachum
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To: popdonnelly

"as are most Mexicans......."
The vast majority of Mexicans are not white. They're Mestizos of mixed Indian and Spanish blood. There are more pure blood Indian Mexicans than pure white Mexicans.

Did you see some of the signs the demonstrators in L.A. carried that read "We are not Latinos and we're not Hispanics - We're Mexicans" meaning as in Aztecs.


168 posted on 04/04/2006 7:17:48 PM PDT by BnBlFlag (Deo Vindice/Semper Fidelis)
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To: Question_Assumptions

Yep. I want people here who want to be Americans, learn our culture, speak our language, defend our nation, and swear never to support Hillary Clinton.


169 posted on 04/04/2006 7:21:49 PM PDT by doug from upland (Stopping Hillary should be a FreeRepublic Manhattan Project)
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To: ZULU
But those individuals who don't believe in borders, ignore the reality of the war on terror and its border implications, and equate individuals who have no wish to be Americans - just to suck off the American public and steal American dollars to funnel into some third-world rathole are totally out of touch with reality and arguing with them over this subject is like spitting in the wind.

Sounds like you tried to reason with Once-Ler.

170 posted on 04/04/2006 7:25:36 PM PDT by neverdem (May you be in heaven a half hour before the devil knows that you're dead.)
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To: HungarianGypsy
The Irish came through Ellis Island and weren't sneaking over the border to get in. There's that whole legal thing again.

Actually, the vast majority of the Irish came before there was an Ellis Island -- and there was almost no way to be an "illegal" as immigration was very lightly controlled. And plenty of them did want to meddle in our politics for the "Old Sod" -- some Irish Union Army veterans tried to conquer Canada to trade it to the brits for Ireland. And they were certainly thought by many to be vast consumers of American services, especially the jails.

171 posted on 04/04/2006 7:25:44 PM PDT by BohDaThone
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To: HungarianGypsy
The Irish came through Ellis Island and weren't sneaking over the border to get in. There's that whole legal thing again.

Actually, the vast majority of the Irish came before there was an Ellis Island -- and there was almost no way to be an "illegal" as immigration was very lightly controlled. And plenty of them did want to meddle in our politics for the "Old Sod" -- some Irish Union Army veterans tried to conquer Canada to trade it to the brits for Ireland. And they were certainly thought by many to be vast consumers of American services, especially the jails.

172 posted on 04/04/2006 7:25:48 PM PDT by BohDaThone
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To: neverdem

If I were Irish I'd be hopping mad at the comparison. The Irish didn't violate our laws to come here, didn't come in the expectation that everyone would speak Gaelic to serve them, didn't want to annex parts of the USA to Ireland, didn't fill our prisons with wildly disproportionate numbers... in short, they didn't come here to turn the USA into another Ireland, they came to become Americans.


173 posted on 04/04/2006 7:26:32 PM PDT by thoughtomator (Since all politicians understand is money, I donate ONLY to those who oppose illegal immigration)
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To: calex59

(Chuckling.....and waiting for Dane)....


174 posted on 04/04/2006 7:29:17 PM PDT by antceecee (Hey AG Gonzales! ENFORCE IMMIGRATION LAWS NOW!!!)
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To: Nachum
"The Irish never bilked the country for welfare or formed clandestine organizations to make America part of Ireland."

And judging from my Irish ancestors, they felt it a privilege to be in America and to be an AMERICAN!!!

175 posted on 04/04/2006 7:29:51 PM PDT by EverOnward (help support our hero soldiers at anysoldier.com)
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To: hosepipe

They are proud to be 'gangsta's'


176 posted on 04/04/2006 7:31:51 PM PDT by antceecee (Hey AG Gonzales! ENFORCE IMMIGRATION LAWS NOW!!!)
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To: thoughtomator

Just as a fact, I am quite confident that a count of prisoners c. 1859-1900 would have found "wildly disproportionate numbers" of Irish, as compared to native stock, in the big cities of the East. The truth is that almost all immigrant groups are disproprtionately represented at the bottom, and that includes crime, until they get established. That fact doesn't determine the immigration debate either way, but it's just not correct to deny it, and imagine a golden past when all immigrants came over and immediately turned into maodel citizens. Most did, but it took time, then or now.


177 posted on 04/04/2006 7:32:49 PM PDT by BohDaThone
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To: BnBlFlag

Probably the over-simplified but mostly spot-on "litmus" test would be whether or not one "blushes" or "sunburns" easily. I do both. In the major metro areas of Mexico, such as Mexico City, and in places with more established hispanic populations, such as San Antonio, there are more folks that look like me, Eva Longoria (from Desperate Housewives), Constance whatever-her-name-is (from George Lopez), and Henry Bonilla, than there are folks that look like the guy holding the sign on my profile page (the more Indian example) or Princess Stephanie (the more Spanish example, although I don't think she's Spanish). However, when you get into the rural areas of Mexico, the Indian type and the Princess Stephanie type extremes are frequently seen.


178 posted on 04/04/2006 7:35:18 PM PDT by hispanarepublicana (Hey, Washington, which laws do I get to break?)
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To: infidel29

True.

This totally ignorant writer did not mention that the Irish kids went to school, they studied American History and they assimilated, as you say. They did not wave Irish flags in the street while they bad mouthed the USA.

These stupid articles should be banned. Free Republic members can write better articles to debate. I am so sick of these ignorant leftists who leave off the most basic of facts in their dumb articles.


179 posted on 04/04/2006 7:35:28 PM PDT by Dont_Tread_On_Me_888 (The purpose of this forum is to fight socialism (see FR homepage), not to defend Republicans.)
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To: BohDaThone

There's disproportionate, and there's wildly disproportionate. Of course poorer groups will be disproportionately represented in prisons, that's the nature of poverty and low education. But to the degree that our prisons are filled with illegal Mexicans? I would doubt any immigrant group in American history has come close.


180 posted on 04/04/2006 7:35:36 PM PDT by thoughtomator (Since all politicians understand is money, I donate ONLY to those who oppose illegal immigration)
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