Victor Davis Hanson: When Cynicism Meets Fanaticism. Critiquing the critique of the war in Iraq

NRO ^ | March 31, 2006 | Victor Davis Hanson

[Tolik]

    Victor Davis Hanson Ping ! 

       Let me know if you want in or out.

Links: FR Index of his articles:  http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/keyword?k=victordavishanson 
His website: http://victorhanson.com/     NRO archive: http://www.nationalreview.com/hanson/hanson-archive.asp

[federal]

bookmark

[Izzy Dunne]

Can Western enlightenment and power, embedded in deep cynicism, still prevail over ignorance and self-inflicted pathology energized by fanaticism?

I think he's referring to the " ignorance and self-inflicted pathology energized by fanaticism" on the part of the "insurgents", but it's funny (nay, tragic) how well that description fits the modern Democratic party.

[romanesq]

Hanson still has the remarkable ability to synthesize all the elements into one coherent piece. Well done!

[hawkaw]

How come Willam F. Buckley doesn't get this?

[ClaireSolt]

Cynicism coddled by welfare. That's the costly mistake.

[Valin]

In realist terms, the benefits to be gained from the war will never justify the costs incurred.


For way to long we (the civilized world) have ignored this part of the world. The world has become to small & interconnected to allow such a large area to remain a black hole of dictatorships, porverty, hopelessness. What America has done with the liberation of Iraq is drop a large rock into this pond, and now we are seeing the ripples spreading out throughout in whole area. How willl this turn out? I don't know and neither does anyone else, BUT this I do know it will not be what it was...and that's a good thing.

[Valin]

Now THAT'S a good question.

[OXENinFLA]

Ping...

[Bahbah]

Thanks for the ping, OXEN. This is a great piece by a great man.

[carton253]

bump for later

[drational]

Can Western enlightenment and power, embedded in deep cynicism, still prevail over ignorance and self-inflicted pathology energized by fanaticism?

Hopefully.
But I think it is fair to say that we are unprepared to do it.
Democracy and Freedom are antithetical to Islamic fundamentalism; Islamists believe that the only viable laws are those given by God; Secular democracy and governing based on anything but Sharia is Apostasy.

Forced conversion would require a lot more planning, money and killing than we have been able to muster thus far; Will it end Islamism? By asking Islamists to join a better way of living, we are asking them to abandon God and the teachings of Islam. The West certainly had it's Dark Ages; Rationalists were imprisoned and persecuted for challenging religious tradition and teaching; Galileo died in prison for suggesting that the Earth revolved around the Sun. The West escaped its ideological prison by the fall of fundamentalist thought hegemony.

Islamists are deeply connected to a supernatural philosophy alien to Western secularism. Personally, I don't think their escape can be imposed by force. "Democratizing" Arabia before the dominance of Islamic fundamentalism is eradicated or allowed to abate is a recipe for disaster- see Hamas, Palestine and Muslim Brotherhood, Egypt and an Afghan constitution (under our auspices) that makes Apostasy a Capital crime.

Its all well and good to say lets go over and kick some butt and establish democracy, but are we ready to be a persistent occupier of people who are fundamentally antagonistic to western ideals? How much will it cost my children and grandchildren to maintain "democracy" in the Middle East? The end of WWII in was accompanied by adandonment of irrational German racial ideals and belief in fascism; also by abandonment by the Japanese of imperialism; these were human ideals and hence fallible; do we really expect fundamentalist Muslims to abandon their religous teachings and accept Western-style democracy?

[meema]

Printing it out now to read it all a little later.

Your comments are well said, drational.

[AmericaUnite]

thanks for the ping. Always so reasonable and enlightening to read.

[aculeus]

Has this gotten the attention it deserves?

Now we hear Time Baghdad Bureau Chief Michael Ware, in a drunken, live interview (“In fact, I'm drinking now…I try to stay as drunk for as long as possible while I'm here”) from the heart of dry Muslim Iraq, recklessly throwing around charges that American soldiers are guilty of manhandling Iraqi women (“We've seen allegations that women have been mishandled or roughly handled. That always inflames passions”) and terrorizing civilians (“We've also seen insurgents criticize other insurgent groups, 'cause you're not doing enough to get the chicks out! I mean, that's how important it can be, this is a matter of great honor, and it's a spark”). Ware’s are precisely the lies and fantasies that feed the Islamists.

[Ernest_at_the_Beach]

Thanks for the pings....and in support of the Iraq discussion see this short piece also:

Remembering Saddam's Slow War

[Donald Rumsfeld Fan]

There remains this last unknown — how well can a liberal democracy, in its greatest age of affluence, leisure, and self-critical reflection, still fight a distant war against emissaries of the Dark Ages who seek to behead apostates, blow up democrats, and silence with death writers, journalists, and cartoonists. It is not just our democratic values versus their IEDs, but whether our idealism still has the resilience to defeat their nihilism.

The major obstacle to our victory is our secular values. The "idealism" Hansen refers to has morphed into "sin, deviance, multiculturism, hedionism, debauchary.

A society so unrestrained cannot stand.

But it will be restrained. By Christians or by Islam. Secularism is on it's last legs. The choice is ours.

[oldbrowser]

There remains this last unknown — how well can a liberal democracy, in its greatest age of affluence, leisure, and self-critical reflection, still fight a distant war against emissaries of the Dark Ages who seek to behead apostates, blow up democrats, and silence with death writers, journalists, and cartoonists.

This sounds like the Romans v. the barbarians, and we know how that turned out.

[NutCrackerBoy]

Democracy and Freedom are antithetical to Islamic fundamentalism.

To survive in this world, Islam particularly on the fringe must change. Only possible instigator of such a remolding change is an "existential crucible." For example: Iraq falling to pieces is unthinkable. Disparate elements must pull together and that means making its Constitution real.

Forced conversion would require a lot more planning, money and killing than we have been able to muster thus far.

I think madrassas will have to be smashed, but it must be modern (as opposed to moderate) Muslims doing the smashing.

The end of WWII in was accompanied by adandonment of irrational German racial ideals and belief in fascism; also by abandonment by the Japanese of imperialism; these were human ideals and hence fallible; do we really expect fundamentalist Muslims to abandon their religous teachings and accept Western-style democracy?

We don't have the luxury that this can happen as quickly. After World War II, without the clarity of all-out War and its results, global conflicts are long-term.