Yes to the fence - It should be the first priority
Yes to guest workers - We need to make illegal immigration more difficult and legal immigration easier.
Yes to greater criminalization for future illegals - They are lawbreakers!
A pro-american, hard-working, capitalist-loving vietnamese who applies for a visa to come to the USA is told up front that he has less than a 5% chance of being accepted because the US is trying to absorb the millions of illegal mexicans. It needs to be easier than this in order to be able to have more control. Right now, it's almost impossible to enter the US legally. This only encourages lawbreakers (though I don't justify it). And yes, we need to be tough on illegals here already. They are lawbreakers.
I wonder if we really should punish businesses for hiring illegals. In one way I say yes but in another...is'nt it OUR GOVERNMENT who is responsible for keeping out illegals? Why punnish businesses in the USA for our government's failures?
Face it! We have enough legal trouble trying to jail terrorists. You really think we will deport 12 million illegals?
LET'S BUILD A WALL NOW!
We have plenty of time to talk about what to do with those already here. Let's build the wall before we have 30 million illegals. This 20 year cycle must stop now. WE HAVE DONE THIS ALREADY IN 1986
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"I wonder if we really should punish businesses for hiring illegals. In one way I say yes but in another...is'nt it OUR GOVERNMENT who is responsible for keeping out illegals? Why punnish businesses in the USA for our government's failures?"
If you hit the bottom line of businesses then they will think twice or three times about hiring illegal immigrants. The failure of the government in part is that it is not enforcing the laws already on the books. We can't afford to jail all these people and we need to focus the resources of our prison systems for getting genuinely dangerous criminals out of the way. Hit the businesses hard with heavy fines and rigorous enforcement - that is the only way. Beefing up border security is fine, walls are fine, but people will always find a way around. We need to remove the incentive for businesses to hire these illegal workers. This will be achieved by a combination of heavy penalties and some sort of guest worker program.
Any guest worker program that in any way rewards those already here with the privilege of staying and/or eventually getting to stay legally is a slap in the face to the millions from OTHER COUNTRIES that also want to come here and work and are trying to do it legally. Why are all our immigration talks centered about Mexicans? There's a whole world of workers out there. Shouldn't they have a shot too?
The volume seems to have increased quite a bit recently.
Bad logic.
It's like asking, "Why do we punish bank robbers, when we should be punishing the banks for being 'robbable'!"
If a factory decides to hire illegals, instead of paying Americans, because the illegals will work for a fraction of the wage an American would cost, then you'd give the factory owner a pass?
And please, none of that stuff about how "greedy American workers" refuse to "compete" with the "hard-working" illegals.
When you have 30 or 40 illegals living in ONE house, well, sure, if Americans were willing to "live" like that, then we could "compete" with the illegals.
Lincoln must be spinning in his grave. All that work, all that misery, all those Americans killed in the Civil War, and here we are, right back at the "Plantation Economy" -- only this time, it's not "just" The South that's got those very "low-cost workers."
A few months ago, the local Chinese restaurant closed down with no warning.
Turned out that the feds came in and busted 'em. The owner had imported his own little "mini-plantation", and billeted his "slaves" in a house -- all 40 of 'em.
Of course, this was a unique case -- they were Chinese illegals. NONE of the several MEXICAN establishments are ever given the ol' Hairy Eyeball treatment. The word seems to have gone out that Mexican illegals are NOT to be bothered.
Meanwhile, the local rag's Police Blotter section is regularly filled with incident reports filled with "hispanic-sounding" names.
This is an agricultural area. Some of the farmers live a fairly low-profile, unassuming lifestyle (at casual glance), but are quite wealthy, and very influential.
I'm talking about operations involving many millions of dollars worth of business. And no politician who does NOT go to bat for his "influential" constituents will find himself a politician for long.
Check this out: U.S. Ends Undocumented Immigrant Stings
So yeah, the government is to blame -- but so are the "interests" who pay the lobbyists and own the politicians who call the shots.
The only ones who don't have a voice in the situation are us couple hundred million Americans trapped "in the middle", between illegals who come here, the employers who "run the plantations", and the government that fills both back pockets from the proceeds.
Both back pockts? Yup. On the one hand, they are on life-support via the money from the employers; on the other hand, golly gee, them thar illegals, guess what? They sign up to vote! Thank "motor-voter" for that abomination.
The key? It's the illegals. They empower the crooked employers, who put Americans out of work, and, pay off the crooked politicians; and, they empower the crooked government directly, by casting their illegal votes, thus becoming a "constituency", for whom the crooked politicians go a-whoring after.
So, you can reform the crooked employers (gee, ain't it something, how, once you lower the wages to something that can only be afforded by living 30 or 40 to a house (itself illegal), there are suddenly all sorts of "jobs Americans won't do"?)
Or, you can, as you suggest, "punish the government."
Or, you can stop the invasion of illegal aliens, who empower the entire corrupt system from top to bottom.
The only problem is, so long as there's a supply of illegal workers, and a corrupt government to protect them, you have NO way of "reforming the employers."
And, as long as you have a supply of corrupt employers, paying off the corrupt politicians -- and a ready supply of illegal alien "constituents" voting for the corrupt politicans, you have NO way of "punishing the government."
And, as long as you have corrupt policians protecting the scam, and crooked employers driving the engine, you have NO way of stopping the invasion of illegal aliens.
How's that verse from Proverbs go? Something about "a threefold cord is not easily broken"? Well, here's your Sunday School lesson, real life, a classic object lesson in the reality of that observaton.
We're screwed. Get used to it. Welcome to the Third World.
We might have that many allready. It is much easier by everyone to use the lower figure....it looks less harmless.
The amnesty deal would allow all of them to bring in their relatives.
In addition we would have millions upon millions rushing to get here to take advantage of amnesty. They will come from all over the world. In ten years we could end up with a few hundred million extras....sounds insane but if we don't close the door, it will be our fate.