Posted on 03/23/2006 11:50:15 AM PST by Jo Nuvark
Don't forget the Author of the "End Game".
You said -- "Was just making a point that if after 3 yrs there it is just the status quo with a different leader then what was the point?"
How much time does it take to change the mindset of an entire generation?
Probably a "generation" -- if you're lucky.
That's going to be the biggest problem in defeating the evil, corrupt, fasle and Satanic religioin of Islam.
We're in it for the *long haul* -- I'm afraid. It's continual war from now on.
Regards,
Star Traveler
[...It's continual war from now on...]
It is my opinion that the Crusades never ended. They were just regrouping.
BTW... you have taught me a lot today about Islam. Stay strong in the Lord. Do not give up the fight. Don't you know that God is fighting for you?
Hey, look which Quranic verse CAIR left out...
Wake up world.
Qur’an 4:90 “If they turn back from Islam, becoming renegades, seize them and kill them wherever you find them.”
I'm awake. You're awake. But a whole lot of people are still in dream land.
No, but it could be the spark that ignites the flames of reason among islamites.
I dream too much.
"But, then again, reading about all those "contradictions" (and there are a lot), they had to come up with some way to resolve them. And what makes more sense than to say that the "newer" portions now replace the "older" portions? "
No - the problem is when non-Islamics start pulling pieces out of context, such as from your link -
"An example of the abrogation: There are 124 versus that call for tolerance and patience that have been cancelled and replaced by one, single verse." ( refering to 9:5)
Noone seems to mention that verse is in a time of war and is preseded by 9:4, which speaks of peace treaties with the idol worhipers being honored.
But you still avoid my point - if this is what your sources claim to be a "major doctrine" just why does it not appear anywhere ?
Even the all-important "verse of the sword" phrase occurs in less then 800 links, and one pages' arabic translation of it, "ayat al-sayf" appears in less then 200.
It appears that anti-islamics and possibly fanatical islamics are the only ones that put any stock in this. You must use the same Imams.
There's no way CAIR or any other Muslim or group can spin this one if this guy is executed. The Muslim "cause" will be toast. The racism, intolerance, hatred and violence will be for all the world to see.
Well, a good reason they might have left it out is that is is a bogus quote -
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/004.qmt.html
"004.090
YUSUFALI: Except those who join a group between whom and you there is a treaty (of peace), or those who approach you with hearts restraining them from fighting you as well as fighting their own people. If Allah had pleased, He could have given them power over you, and they would have fought you: Therefore if they withdraw from you but fight you not, and (instead) send you (Guarantees of) peace, then Allah Hath opened no way for you (to war against them).
I think RS is talking about shopping the Q'Ran instead of taking the "whole counsel" of the book.
Christians have the same problem. There are plenty of us who are Biblically illiterate. The good news is that we can read and our Bible agrees with itself. Christians can educate themselves.
From what I understand, a vast number of Muslims CANNOT read at all. The bad news is the Q'ran does NOT agree with itself. (Many) Muslims must rely on abusive Clerics for interpretation and instruction.
FYI: Rice phones Karzi.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1601892/posts
Muslims, Christians and Animists are whacking each other left and right in Indonesia and Africa. This is a bigger deal because?? Oh because Afghanistan is being force feed higher institutions. The others will look and say see what they'll do if they try and "civilize" us. They'll make us work in out in court instead of with machete and AK. tsk tsk.
You said -- "No - the problem is when non-Islamics start pulling pieces out of context, such as from your link"
From what I saw and read (and listened to) at that site, these are former Muslims who are speaking from their own knowledge and experience. In fact, one of them talks about how highly he was regarded by Muslims for his knowledge. That all changed when he became a Christian, though. His knowledge, however, didn't disappear with that event. That's the nice thing about having all those Muslims who are now Christians -- who can tell you those things "from the inside."
The only ones who are denying these things are the "apologists" -- who want other to think that Islam really is a "religion of peace".
Well, the Bible say "you will know them by their fruits" -- and the fruits I can see are the "rolling heads". That's enough for me.
And then, further "fruit" is when you see those Muslims in Afghanistan who are "protesting" that the government is trying to let go a Muslim who became a Christian. They are demanding his death -- because this cannot be allowed under Islam. And they say if the government won't kill him, then they will instruct the people to "tear him limb from limb" in order to do this kind of "Islamic justice".
So, I'm sorry... the "fuit is rotten" in Islam.
And you said -- "But you still avoid my point - if this is what your sources claim to be a "major doctrine" just why does it not appear anywhere ?"
If you read that guys information on that web site, you'll see that he referenced Islamic sources for this.
And, when you consider the lying and the abrogation -- it finally puts all the "pieces into place" and explains why you have all these apparent contradictions and all the lying going on. It's commanded in order to "fool the infidel" (until we can cut off his head, you see....).
It explains why (for example, Arafat would speak something in English (about pursuing peace with Israel) with the International press -- and then only hours later, speak in Arabic to his own people on their own television stations and repudiate what he just told the "English speaking" press. Why was Arafat lying like a dog, in the space of hours? The answer, very simply, he was acting like a "good Muslim" -- in order to fool the infidels -- until they can take over Israel and kill all the Jews and Christians.
It's the same thing, over and over again, wherever you go in the Muslim world. It's so evil and sickening -- it's hard to carry on a civilized conversation and use the word Islam and Mohammed in the same breath. Mohammed is a joke of a person and an evil man and has no qualities that should allow him to even breathe the word "God". And "Allah" just happens to be another name for Satan. Mohammed is simply the "Hitler" of religious circles, that's all.
Anyone who defends Islam is simply an "apologist" just like the lying entity of "CAIR". I gag at the name of CAIR. What a bunch of morons they are.
I'm surprised that you are taken in by all the chicanery that is going on with them. Of course, you could simply be doing an "Arafat" on us, too.
You know... for Islam to want to kill the all Jews is so ludicrous -- because their goodness and morality is of such a higher order -- compared to any Muslim (speaking of the comparable faiths involved) -- that Islam would be like the dust on the bottom of a Jew's foot -- simply to be shaken off. And that's what will exactly happen with Islam. It will be the dust of the earth to be shaken off and blown away, never to be heard from again -- in the end.
And I'm sure that absolutely galls a Muslim, to the point where he'll want to go out and chop off a few more heads this week. What a bunch of morons those Muslims are.
Regards,
Star Traveler
"If you read that guys information on that web site, you'll see that he referenced Islamic sources for this."
Yep, and if you look for his source it gets even worse - if you google the name of the writer of this "major doctrine" you get a total of 30 hits ... 30 ... ALL from Anti-Islamic sites.
If the Billion or so Muslims on the planet are supposed to be learning this, they are sure keeping it quiet.
"It's the same thing, over and over again, wherever you go in the Muslim world"
When was the last time you were in any part of the Muslim world ?
Has the Pakistani running the 7-11 down the block stabbed you yet ?
The Iraqi cab driver tossed your mutilated body in the river ?
But that's right - YOU are a self appointed Imam and YOU decide who is a "good" Muslim and who is not, and just how they should read the Koran.
Bin Laden must be very proud of you, you are doing your best to give him exactly what he wants.
You said -- "If the Billion or so Muslims on the planet are supposed to be learning this, they are sure keeping it quiet."
Good reason for keeping it quiet. It would be harder to keep the masses fooled. And, I doubt that the majority of them can read -- especially when they want to keep their women uneducated. That takes care of 50% right there (give or take a few points). You can add in the other illiterate men.
Oh... wait a minute -- I forgot -- Mohammed couldn't read or write either... I guess he set the standard, didn't he?
And also -- When was the last time you were in any part of the Muslim world?"
I've still got my head on -- so that's what I call a "good thing". It would be missing in a quick minute if I stepped foot over there.
You asked -- "Has the Pakistani running the 7-11 down the block stabbed you yet? The Iraqi cab driver tossed your mutilated body in the river?"
Not while I'm watching them -- they're not. Good thing...
Regards,
Star Traveler
Oh, I forgot this one -- "But that's right - YOU are a self appointed Imam and YOU decide who is a "good" Muslim and who is not, and just how they should read the Koran."
Well..., certainly the only good Muslim is one who will absolutely follow his religion of Islam and not make friends of the Jew and the Christian. And also to make sure he kills the infidel (those very people) and make sure that on the last day -- they get every last one of those dirty and filthy Jews who may be hiding behind a tree or a rock. I guess the trees or rocks cry out to those "good Muslims" to kill those dirty Jews -- don't they?
You Muslims have certainly set the standard for killing those dirty Jews and Christians, haven't you? You certainly have "one-upped" Hitler, for sure.
Regards,
Star Traveler
"Good reason for keeping it quiet. It would be harder to keep the masses fooled."
So just what is it you are say here - the masses of Muslims are keep ignorant of the very thing that you are saying is so bad about them ? If they don't know it, they can't practice it, correct ? Your "logic" fails.
You said -- "So just what is it you are say here - the masses of Muslims are keep ignorant of the very thing that you are saying is so bad about them ? If they don't know it, they can't practice it, correct ? Your "logic" fails."
Well, in case you missed it -- "what is so bad about them" is that they have evil and abhorrent practices -- no matter how one goes about explaining how they arrived at those practices.
How do you make killing someone for converting to Christianity "better" by giving some "explanation" that shows you that the Koran allows that. That is supposed to make it better to kill that Christian?
And how does an explanation of their interpretation methods for the Koran make it better that they are supposed to kill all the Jews at that last day. That's supposed to make the Jews feel better -- knowing that they've interpreted the Koran correctly? "Oh, I now feel better knowing that this cleric has correctly interpreted the Koran and that Muslims should kill me!" Sure...
And how does this explanation of interpretation help explain away those suicide bombers who indiscriminately kill everyone. We're all supposed to feel better now that we have a "handle" on their "interpretation" of the Koran.
Nope, there is no getting around Islam's evil and corrupt practices. It should not even exist in this world as a religion. It should be stamped out like a dirty little virus that is a plague on the human race. And it will be some day -- stamped out like the evil that it is.
And so, back to the "interpretation" (momentarily forgetting the evil practices) -- there is no logic with Islam. It's nothing but total idiocy and full of mental defectives. To even think that there can be "logic" in such an environment as Islam is laughable. You've got the wrong forum for "logic" -- if you're talking about Islam.
Nope -- no "logic" here. It's only a very clear observation -- of crazy and idiotic and evil people practicing a Satanic religion from a pedophile (so-called) prophet -- who was nothing but a "war monger" and power hungry. What on earth could be "logical" about such a abhorrent religion?
If you're looking for logic from Islam -- give it up. It doesn't exist.
And continuing..., I'm not saying that their interpretation (in terms of Abrogation) is "bad". In fact, it's quite "good". What it does is make sense of the "mish-mash" of contradictions in the Koran. Otherwise, it would be a ridiculous mass of contradictions -- that wouldn't make sense to anyone. So, now -- we've got the "good result" of resolving the contradictions. Nothing wrong with resolving those conflicts.
But, once again, the real problem is with the "practice" of Islam and how Islam is producing nothing but murderers and terrorists. I don't think one can separate the word "terrorist" from "Islam". They don't exist in a context separate from one another. That's the practice of Islam. If you're speaking about a "terrorist" -- I can tell you, without ever asking anyone -- that the person is a Muslim. The two are never seen "in the wild" apart from one another -- terrorist and Islam.
And while it's eminently obvious that the practice of Islam is evil and abhorrent -- it still doesn't explain *how* they arrive at their evil practices.
This explanation -- in regards to the doctrine of abrogation -- is such an explanation. The explanation doesn't make it evil -- the very practices of that religion make Islam evil and abhorrent and a false religion -- and not a religion of peace, but a religion of war and of Satan.
And so, again, it's not the masses who are resolving these differences in interpretation. It's the clerics who are -- for -- the masses. In fact, the masses cannot even "read" the Koran, although they may recite something (that they don't even understand). It's not in a language that they speak or understand today. The clerics do, though.
It's not the masses who are teaching these things -- although they sure are praciticing them according to what the clerics say. It's the clerics who are teaching these evil and Satanic things.
Now, as to "how" they are able to explain their evil practices -- that's what we are talking about here. It doesn't make their evil practices any more legitimate. What it does -- in fact -- is show them to be all the worse than they really are. They should have abandoned this conflicting and evil and Satanic religion a long time ago. Instead of that -- they simply perpetuate this evil through their different doctrines and ways of explaining things. And the doctrine of Abrogation of one of those ways.
It's like a murderer in our system today. They go to court -- on trial for many murders. Some psychologist gets up there and say that our "poor little boy" had problems with his parents when he was little and really didn't mean to kill all those people... Well... wah, wah, wah... Too bad for him. He's still an evil person no matter how you try to explain it.
So, doctrine of Abrogation or not -- Islam is as evil as it gets and is a Satanic religion and has a false god and a false pedophile prophet called Mohammed. To think that such a man could even be considered human is ludicrous. He's less than even an animal in this world.
In any case, anyone who wants to read about it can take the doctrine of abrogation any way they want -- because it's still getting people heads chopped off no matter how you interpret it.
Islam is evil and it's the God of the Jews, of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob who will put an end to Islam (quite ironic if you ask me, to have the Jews stamp out Islam)
Regards,
Star Traveler
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