Freeper Research Project: Survey of Freeper Views of "How it all Ends" FINAL

Contributing Freepers | March 22, 2006 | Alamo-Girl

[Alamo-Girl]

Following is the final result of the survey of what Freepers believe is the end of all that there is:

Eschatology is the study of the end of history according to Christian theology.

Teleology is the study of final causes, the end results.

OED definition (offered by XeniaSt)

1 Philosophy - the doctrine that the existence of phenomena may be explained with reference to the purpose they serve.

2 Theology - the doctrine that there is evidence of design and purpose in the natural world.

As expected, Freepers' answers were strongly related to personal religious beliefs. The order is the same as the original survey, the responses are sorted with the longer responses last. In an attempt to shorten the survey, I’ve “compactified” some of the answers.

Christianity (paraphrased from this webpage)

American in Israel

Historical Premillennialism: The Antichrist appears on earth before the seven year Tribulation begins. Rapture follows tribulation. Christ and his Church return to earth to rule for a Millennium. The forces of evil are conquered. The faithful live during the thousand years in Jerusalem, while occupying spiritual bodies. After the millennium, all people are judged and the faithful spend eternity on a new earth (not in heaven).

Shery

Supernatural

L,TOWM

Cap Huff

Old_Mil

Blue-duncan

TXnMA (also pre-trib)

Righttackle44 (also pre-trib)

freebounder - Because of some verses in the minor prophets, i am open to the possibility of starflight before Christ's return. just becuase the next anti-christ (there are many) may arise within my lifetime doesnt necessarily mean that he will the the anti-christ of the book of revelation. prophecy can be fulfilled in such a way that Christ may return within the next heartbeat, or he may return next century. my responsibility is live life as though he may come at any moment, but plan for life as if he may not come for another thousand years.

Pigrigger - Christ will return when his Church is about to be extinguished from this plane of existence... [“Church” consists of ] those who believe in his teachings as they were intended... there will be those who call themselves Christians during the end of times...but they will practice something much different than what is found in scripture. You can see that starting to happen today; the many Christian denominations are morphing into secular humanism...... I don't see anyone escaping the tribulation. The horrors that will coincide with the rise of false prophets, and eventually the anti-Christ, will be experienced by all. Christians (not those evolving into the new church) will be persecuted and ostracized...it will be bleak. The anti-Christ will be loved and adored by the majority of those in this world, he will claim to be the head of the newly evolved Christian church, he will claim to be the Christ the Messiah.... Most will not recognize what is happening until it is too late. But the signs will be there; especially the natural horrors and numerous wars that will occur....ultimately leading to the anti-Christ's reign of false peace. Christ will return, but only when the last of His faithful are about to be sacrificed; only when Satan believes he is about to win the final battle - the capturing of all humanity.

Dispensational Premillennialism: (a.k.a. Dispensationalism) The Tribulation precedes the second coming of Christ, and the subsequent establishment of the millennial kingdom -- a thousand-year golden age on Earth under the authority of Christ. Afterwards, in a brief, final battle, Satan is permanently conquered. The Final Judgment follows the millennium.

MomMD

Anonymous Contributor

Pietro - When the bill comes due there will be heavy retribution all around. But for God's mercy not one would survive… our understanding of history will be wiped clean and a new age, in the beginning a Golden Age will follow. And then entropy again sets in.

colorcountry - Most people will not realize what is taking place, that the world is in it's death throes. Just like when Christ came, few realized the promised Messiah had arrived. There really isn't a lot of difference, but I don't think I believe in a "rapture." I think even we Christians will suffer until Satan is defeated in the final battle - then Christ and his followers will return to a glorified earth.

Pre-Tribulation Rapture: (or "pre-trib") The Rapture happens just before the Tribulation, so that believers will not have to experience any of its disruption and pain.

Tuscaloosa Goldfinch (ex-pre-trib)

Brad's Gramma (ex pre-trib)

birbear (ex pre-trib)

Anonymous contributor

pcottraux

xzins

carlr

Esther Ruth

Lonestar

XeniaSt

Seven_0

Cate

Swmobuffalo

Old_Mil

DrewsDad

nuclady

NZerFromHK

commish

TXnMA (also pre-mil)

Righttackle44 (also pre-mil)

Walkenfree - Comforting to know anyone that calls on the name of the Lord, will be saved.

KYGrandma - I will be skipping all the trials and tribulations.

HKMk23 (leans toward but could also be mid)

RaceBannon - literal 7 year reign of the anti-Christ, literal 1000 year reign of Christ

Salem - The Lord's protocols; precedent; the way He does things are pretty clear: Rapture or Judgment American or Roman Road

GiovannaNicoletta - The Tribulation is God's judgement on the unrighteous- not on His children. In every instance in Scripture in which God sent judgement, He first removed His people from the scene, i.e. Noah, Lot, etc. Besides, Jesus said that the Rapture is the blessed hope and what hope is there if believers are to suffer the judgement intended for those who have chosen to reject God's Son!

Gakrak - As a believer, I am looking foreword to the rapture and I believe "Pre-Tribulation Rapture: (or "pre-trib") The Rapture happens just before the Tribulation, so that believers will not have to experience any of its disruption and pain." All indications in my view of what is written in the Word, indicates to me that this is what to expect. Amen.

WalterSkinner - most defensible if one accepts Plenary Inspiration of the Bible and a Historical/Grammatical (literal) mode of interpretation)

Ready2go - Jesus comes first for His church & then comes back with His Church … while our bodies will die...we..."who we are" won't die. We just go from here to there. (Wherever we choose to spend eternity).

Cva66snipe - Pre-Trib Rapture occurring likely while anyone born May 18, 1948 and after {Israels reestablishment as a nation} is still alive. Pre-Trib because I consider the Return of Christ in the air and The Second Coming feet on ground to rule as two different events. Using the Hebrew wedding custom Christ calls forth the church at an unknown time{rapture}. Then following that when the 7 year treaty is signed all days can then be counted exactly to the number as to Christ Second Coming. However no one knows the time the Father says Bring Forth the Bride {The Church}. Even then the world as a whole remaining behind because of it's unbelief will not realize the events.

Cvengr - Pre-trib, pre-mil ... Just waiting that Great DISPE TD (DYNAMIN Power; ISCHYN Strength; SOPHIAN Wisdom; PLOYTON Riches/Abundance; EULOGIAN Blessing; TIMEN Honor, Value, Praise; DOXAN Honor, Glory, Spendor, Praise)

I don't see anything in Scripture that would preempt God in His grace, disciplining a wayward Christian nation to the point of total destruction by fire, if it repeatedly displays it will not return to Him and in so failing is considered in divine perspective as simply being good for nothingness.… the US isn't shown directly in Prophecy as critical to things to come. We have an opportunity to provide a pivot for other believers and nations to return to Him and play important roles as He has planned. Those roles aren't as dependent upon a brotherhood as much as they are upon our remaining faithful in Him. The demise of the west doesn't mean the failure of His plan, merely our rejection of Him and consequence of evil.

mitch5501 - There will be a great war, a disappearance of a certain group of people from the earth, the appearance of a messiah, the rebuilding of the temple and then peace. I also believe this sequence of events will happen twice.

Quix (60%) - 60% believe in Pre-trib. 100% believe in Pre-wrath in the sense that The Scripture is clear about God's kids "not appointed unto wrath." … the church will see more of at least the birth pangs and possibly parts of Tribulation than many suspect. But I don't know that I believe that most or all of the church will see most of Tribulation. I suspect I believe 70-80% that those who Believe before Tribulation will go up then and others along the way but before the WRATH-FULL last 3.5 years. But I don't really think any of us have it all figured out yet.

Post-tribulation Rapture: (or "post-trib") The faithful experience the full horrors of the entire Tribulation and are raptured only at the end of the 7 years.

xzins

Larry Lucido

Lee N. Field (also amil)

Mid-Tribulation Rapture: (or "mid-trib") The Rapture happens 42 months into the Tribulation. Up to that time, the Antichrist brings peace to the world. After 42 months, events take a sudden turn for the worse.

birbear

DrewsDad

Brad's Gramma - I don't see HOW or WHY we're so special during this generation to be spared suffering for Christ.

Pre-wrath Rapture: That the church must experience most of the Tribulation, and then be raptured towards the end of the Tribulation period.

who knows what evil?

restornu

Quix

Shery

Republic

Cap Huff - Historic premil with leanings to prewrath

American in Israel - I figure we are in the last stages of the second seal and are about to pop on the third. (Rev 6))

Bear_Slayer - The tribulation belongs to the world and is not suffering to produce faith in Christ's, but wrath, against the world who are completely antagonistic to Christ and His own. The church is not destined for wrath

highlander_UW - The prewrath view believes the church will go through the Great Tribulation and will be raptured between the end of that event but before the beginning of God's wrath. Jesus taught that the Great Tribulation begins after the middle of the 70th week, so the rapture would occur at some point in the second half of the 70th week.

OB1kNOb - Label me as a "7th trumpeter" as in 1 Corinthians 15: 51 Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. TribulationPeriod.com One thing I was told 25 years ago by a great preacher, is do not treat prophecy the same as you do dogma or doctrine. No one can be absolutely accurate in interpreting prophecy of future events, unless, like GOD, they can see the future. Wise words.

Partial Rapture: The faithful born-again believers are raptured just before the Tribulation. Newly born again believers are raptured during or at the end of the Tribulation.

Alamo-Girl

Blue-duncan - I lean more to Ladd's Kingdom Theology ( Historic Premillennialism) than strict Dispensationalism.

O Neill - Please add me to the 'Partial Rapture' category...because it includes those who, after personally witnessing the Rapture, will come to faith in short order, realizing at last the full ramifications of Vince Lombardi's famous quip... If you're not fired with enthusiasm, you WILL be fired with enthusiasm!

Amillennialism: (Also known as Nonmillennialism). The Kingdom of God is present in the world today through the presence of the heavenly reign of Christ, the Bible, the Holy Spirit and Christianity. Both good and evil will continue in the world until the current Church Age ends suddenly as Christ returns to the sky above the earth. The Rapture follows. The Redeemed are transported to heaven where they will adopt spiritual bodies. The majority of humanity will be sent to Hell at this time for eternal punishment. The world will be abandoned. History is no more.

XeniaSt (ex amil)

PAR35

Gamecock

Vimto

Xzins

Lee N. Field (also post-mil)

Fromscratchmom - re "majority", don't know how many people will be saved and how many will be lost. I guess some biblical passages do point to "few" being saved.

Amillennialism, Roman Catholic: These anticipate Jesus coming to Earth and gathering the Church together. But they generally do not use the term "rapture."

Petronski

MrBlueSky2005

onyx

cyborg

Bayourant (with some preterism)

Rodney King

Rutles4ever

SoothingDave - From one of my daughter's favorite movies, "The Last Unicorn." Take it away, Schmendrick, the magician: There are no happy endings, because nothing ends.

agere_contra (there will be no more time and space - but we will be in the presence of He who created time and space. The walls separating us from true, uncreated Reality will tumble down.)

StAnDeliver -

"Someday some of them say that our hearts
will beat like the wheels of a fast train
going 'round the world
Some say we'll be together
Some say for a very long time
Some of them will say a very long time"
-- "Book of Brilliant Things", Simple Minds

Postmillennialism: (Also known as "Christian Reconstruction", "Kingdom Now Theology" and "Dominion Theology.") These believe "that the kingdom of God is now being extended in the world through the preaching of the gospel and the saving work of the Holy Spirit, that the world eventually is to be Christianized, and that the return of Christ will occur at the close of a long period of righteousness and peace, commonly called the millennium."

Blue_Ridge_Mtn_Geek (with partial preterism)

TomSmedley (with partial preterism)

Freedomfiter2 (with partial preterism)

Biblical Calvinist (with partial preterism) - By the way.. Christian Reconstructionists (primarily Reformed) are in a different theological "Camp" than those holding to "Dominion Theology" (the "Dominionists" are primarily Charismatics.) Each of these groups can be said to hold to a much different view of Post-Millenial thought than MOST Classical (historical-that is, those who lived 17th to early 20th Century) Post-Millenialists have in the past. In other words; there are noticible differences in thought.

Preterism is a belief that the events prophesized in the New Testament have already happened. The great war of Armageddon in the book of Revelation occurred in the late 60's and early 70's CE when the temple in Jerusalem was destroyed, many Jews were killed and the rest were driven from Palestine. When Jesus talked about the end of the world, he did not mean that the physical world would be no more.

bayourant (some preterism)

Fred Nerks - Revelation is history not prophesy

Blue_Ridge_Mtn_Geek (partial with post-mil - Details about "The End" are not the most important issue)

TomSmedley (partial with post-mil - the resurrection of the body is still part of the creed, the faith which we must keep "wholly and entire.")

Freedomfiter2 (partial with post-mil)

Biblical Calvinist (partial with post-mil)

gaspar - I was recently asked by an eschatologist to confirm that the Book of Ezekial explains the recent close relationship between Iran and Russia (chapters 25-27 as I recall). I had no answer, read Ezekial, and still don't.

Tokra - The biblical prophecies already took place when Jerusalem was sacked by the Romans in 63 AD. I think the universe and human life will go on and on until we have filled the universe. (assuming we don't destroy ourselves first). Other than that - Jesus said, 'No man knows the day or the hour."

No Millennialism: These interpret the contents of the books of Daniel and Revelation as having no prophetic information for our future.

William Creel

Underground Catholic

Domestic Church - Pro Jesus

Other

La Enchiladita - His Kingdom will have no end...

Knitting a Conundrum - I believe that no matter what we say, argue, believe or do, God will do what he wants to do, in his way, and in his time. Our job is to be watchful servants, always ready for his coming.

Freema - concurring with Knitting a Conundrum

Ptaz - I always subscribed to the type and shadow shown when God took his people out of Egypt. He didn't take them out--he took them through the red sea, so I don't really believe in a rapture, pre-trib, mid-trib or post-trib. I believe whatever it is, God will see you through.

Smocker - End times: the 4 last things: death, judgment, heaven, hell Belief system: extra ecclesiam nulla sallus

Grey_whiskers - I belonged in several different camps over the years, and now I'm in the camp of *shrug*. 'Tis more important to live for Christ at whatever place and time you are at right now. (Evangelical, married to a former Lutheran, both adult converts to Catholicism, still learning the ropes.) But I'm still pretty sure it's all gonna end on one of those Crevo threads.

Valin - I did a small study of this many many years ago for bible study I was in, at the end I came to a couple of conclusions: (1) They all have scripture to back them up (2) They are (pretty much) mutually exclusive (3) God did this on purpose, knowing that some people needed to have something to write about and this was as good as any. --- Whenever I run into this subject my answer is...."Or Not".

Dunstan McShane - I like to quote the opinion of a pastor of my acquaintance who, when he was asked about his eschatology, replied, "Pan-millenial--I think it'll all pan out. Otherwise, I don't spend too much time worrying about it." Actually, I like to be surprised, and can virtually guarantee that, whatever eschatological system one subscribes to, one will be surprised. These attempts to out-clever Omniscience and break into His secret game plan . . . well, let's be diplomatic and say that they are amusing.

Tuscaloosa Goldfinch - I saw that we must "endure to the end" to be saved, so ... I don't know what I believe about the end. I believe all the scriptures, but as the Hebrews in the days of Jesus were expecting an earthly king, and therefore did not recognize the King of Kings, I think it may all look very different from the ideas we have. And I don't think the term "rapture" is in the NT, although it does say we will be "caught up". I think a great deal of what we are expecting may take place on two levels, spiritual and in the flesh.

connectthedots - Until I attend seminary, I will continue to hold the panmillennialism position. It will all pan out in the end. Truthfully, I have never had much of an interest in Eschatology. As a practical matter, what difference does it make in the way we should live our lives in the present? If one has a saving knowledge of Jesus Christ, he will spend eternity in heaven. The rest is details

hope - Christ will withdraw His Church (Those who have accepted the gift of salvation through Jesus) prior to the judgment that will come upon the earth which will end the age of grace. After a period of judgment Christ will return with His bride, the church and set up His Kingdom as promised to David that his seed will rule forever and ever, sun up to sun down. After a thousand year reign Satan is released for a final judgment on the earth and then Satan and his minions are cast into the lake of fire forever and ever. Those who have accepted the promise of Gods covenant with His Son, will remain with Him forever and ever with the establishment of a new heaven and earth...

Dark Skies - That old world ended the day this one began. Once a person embraces Yeshua, all things pass away. We may see the old world around us...but it is gone. We open our eyes, and all things are new...and we have died and been reborn...into Him. Upon coming to Jesus, we are coming to Heaven. Just knowing Him is Heaven. Rebirth by the HS negates purgatory. His indwelling brings any existence into the Heavenly realm. Of this I have proof...I am proof! and so are you!

bIlluminati - world without end - kingdom is among you; heaven or hell on earth - or anywhere else we make it; no big crunch - science still in its infancy in explaining Big Questions; unclear as to whether Jesus has returned - if yes, on Pentecost; otherwise, no

hosepipe - So the end of all there is is subjective.. All of what, where, to whom, when, and how.. I believe the answer lies in your vantage point, your view, your composition of all there is like a painting.. A view from an angle with a light source casting shadows.. An intellectual painting.. With me I like to see the "view" from different angles with different light sources.. Heck its only a painting.. And the composition can be beautiful from several angles.. And since it’s an intellectual pursuit why not?.. I prefer to see the end as a promised new beginning and try to conduct my life here in the moment as if in the Nexus.. Because each day, hour, minute, second is an ending and a beginning.. I believe that if I can handle the moments well, the end and the pregnant beginning will take care of themselves.. Jesus said that I believe.. Too simple?.. Yeah maybe, but I do love simple.. After all I'm a Nexusologist.. Its simpler in the Nexus..

Betty boop - I don't spend much time thinking about the Endtimes.

For one thing, we do not know the timing of this event -- only the Father knows, not even the Son knows this. Since I cannot in principle know this, then it seems a better use of my time and energy is just to live in Christ in the here and now, and leave the issue to God.

There have been many occasions in human history when all the "signs of the times" seemed to point to an imminent apocalypse: e.g., the end-stages of such great civilizations as Athens and Rome, when all appeared sunk in dissolution and chaos. Or in modern times, with the devastation wrought by such as Hitler and Stalin. Things were so horrific, that a person could be excused for believing that the Endtimes must be at hand. But in all these cases, the human race recovered and seems to have gotten "another chance" from God.

Things are very bad in the world right now, and seemingly getting worse. Ultimately there must be an "accounting" for this. But whether this will take the form of eschatological Judgment and the End of the existing order, or the form of human spiritual renewal, I do not know. But in any case, I hope for, and strive for, spiritual renewal, a setting of things aright according to God's law and truth, through the mediation of our Lord Jesus Christ, and the power of the Holy Spirit.

Suffering humanity and the groaning earth itself expectantly await the Coming of Christ, in the fullness of His Truth and Judgment. But we do not know when this will be. Meanwhile, Christians do not have to simply "await our Lord's Coming," for he is (in a certain sense) already "with us" -- if we are living in Christ, and following Him in our daily lives.

More practically speaking, I think speculations about the Endtimes are really fairly pointless. For whatever we think God is going to do, I'm pretty sure God is going to "outdo" whatever our expectation might be. We think in human categories. God is not so limited. I imagine that whatever happens will be spectacularly beyond our ability to predict, even with the help of biblical prophecy. We simply cannot know what form it will take, even though we assuredly know (by means of divine revelation) that it will involve cleansing and purification, according to divine Judgment.

All is God's Will, in the here and now, and in the hereafter. So I simply conclude: trust in the Lord, live in His Word, and leave the issue of the Endtimes to Him.

null and void - Did you notice that every one of the first seven days in Genesis ends with: "And the evening and the morning were the [nth] day." Every one that is, except the Seventh? This is still the Seventh day.

We already agree that our calendar is wrong, off by anywhere from 2 to 16 years, depending on who's doing the reckoning, and further in error because of the absence of a year zero. The more fundamental point is that God did not intend us to mark His years by the birth of Jesus. If He had intended this we would have a Biblical fixing of the date. Further, the day of Jesus' birth is unremarkable as all men are born. However, very few return from the dead, that event is remarkable, and it is the defining moment of Christianity, the very moment of proof that his sacrifice was not in vain. And the Bible gives a precise reference for when this happened! Clearly this was the date the calendar was supposed to start! For extra points, this makes our calendar off by anywhere from 17 to 30 years. That makes this something like Holy Year 1988 to Holy Year 1975, giving us anywhere from 12 to 25 years to get our affairs in order before the real end of the millennium...

justmythoughts - Matthew 24:3 And as He sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples ask unto Him privately, saying "Tell us, when shall these thing be and what shall be the sign of Thy coming, and of the end of the world?" v4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, "Take heed that no man deceive you. v5 For many shall come in My name saying, 'I am Christ:' and shall deceived many. The rest of Matthew 24, Mark 13, and Luke 21 all lists the "sign" of the end of this "AGE". ---- Paul says I Corinthians 10:11 Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: (examples) and they are written for our admonition, (warning) upon whom the ends of the world (age) are come. So I am guessing the question "How it all Ends" is directed to the end of this flesh age. According to Paul we already have the script told to us by the prophets starting in Genesis, as Moses was surely a prophet. Christ said Matthew 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. 22. And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened. So according to Christ, the tribulation foretold by Daniel and others assigned a 7 year time frame has been shortened.

JockOManning - My pastor back in the 80s used the phrase, "Pan-Millenialism: It will all pan out in the end", with regards to whether the Rapture occurs before, halfway through, or after the 7-year Tribulation. Something about my personality or psyche is such that I have never felt a compunction to definitively come up with just exactly how I stand on my expectations for the return of Jesus Christ and the Rapture of the Church. I do know, having lost to death one particular family member who was very dear to me and who I still miss everyday, that I cherish - I Thessalonians Chapter 4 - I think whether Jesus returns this week, this month, this year, this decade, this century, or not for another 500 years, my job is to "know His voice" and to obey the Bible. And whether I have already come to the end of my lifetime when He finally returns or whether it happens during my life, the important thing is that I have trusted Him to forgive my sins, obeyed Him, and followed after Him. Loving Him and loving my fellow man each day is the focus of my life. With His help I will continue in this way till I draw my final breath. His coming is as certain as the dawn. He is the KING of kings and LORD of lords and His kingdom will not end. Without faith it is impossible to please God.

gregwest - The Mormon expectation: The "world" that ends is the current age dominated by vice, greed, lust, and power. Jesus Christ will personally return and the brightness of his coming burns the earth and destroys the wicked. The physical earth will be burned, but it will not be destroyed in the process. The burning will rid the earth of the works of corruption and evil. Christ will reign over the earth for a period of a thousand years. Those who have been faithful and obedient to God's commandments (regardless of their religious affiliation) will remain. His coming ushers in a series of resurrections of the dead. Mortals will be born, raised, and live on earth, but they will not taste of death. They will be transformed at the time of death from mortality to immortality. During this period the earth will be renewed to an Eden-like state. During this millennial period, Satan will be bound and will exercise no influence over humanity. However, at the end of the thousand years, Satan will be released, leading to his final battle against God and the righteous. At the end of this conflict, the physical earth will "pass away" and be "reborn" as an eternal kingdom of glory, which "the meek" will inherit. All of humanity will be resurrected and judged according to their works and they will live eternally in "many mansions" of varying degrees of glory.

Aliska - All I know is that I believe scripture where it says at the end Jesus will come in the clouds in glory as he ascended.

The Evil One may even try to fake that one or convince us it wasn't literal. There *may* be a place of safety for some believers, but I don't believe in any pre-anything rapture until the very end when all believers, living and dead are caught up to be with Jesus, or like St. Paul said, we would all be changed in a twinkling of an eye. What that change will be, I don't know other than from mortality to immortality. I fully expect to die the way mortals have done since early Christian times and before that. What comes after that, if anything, I don't have any idea. St. Paul says we can't imagine it. So I try not to fantasize about it.

I had a few words for my granddaughter who is of the x generation that only believes in the here, now, and science. It seems to me that everybody tends to conjure up a heaven in their mind as they would have it. We may now be in the times "Blessed are those who died in the Lord." I believe unprecedented evils are coming. I also believe Daniel's "god of forces" is science and technology and unimagined weapons of mass destruction such as what we have today, and that most will put their trust in that before God, same as with money.

On another thread I was talking about our local radio talk show. The host is very confident in all our weaponry and technology. To a point, I am, too, but those are as nothing compared to God should He decide to exercise His power. All of it could come to naught, and we are foolish indeed to place our trust in any of it but God.

raygun - classical fundamental pre-mill trib pre-trib rapture dispenstational eschatology.

Armagedon is post-TRIB PRE-mill. Its the final battle where ALL the armies of the world are arrayed against Israel, and if but for the second second-coming of Christ, all life on the planet would be destroyed….

After Christ's second second-coming there's a precise 75 day period of judgment against all people and nations present on the earth at the time (roughly about 1/5 of what are present now). Only those judged righteous by Christ are allowed to enter the Millennial Kingdom (the rest go straight to Hell). The righteous who enter the Millennial Kingdom are normal humans in every sense (even procreating), however there will be no open rebellion against Christ (even so based on the sin nature of their unglorified bodies there will be sin in people's hearts). However, the Old Testament saints, and those Raptured at the first second-coming, will have glorified bodies and will not procreate (nor will there be any sin in their hearts).

Just to be clear: the first second-coming of Christ is at the Rapture of the Church; the living and dead saints, i.e., those living at the time who are in the Church meeting Him in the clouds with glorified bodies (and the dead saints - who were in the Church while they lived - and are already present with Christ in the clouds will be united with their glorified bodies).

It is at the second second-coming of Christ that the Old Testament saints, and the martyrs during the Tribulation are united with their glorified bodies. This is known as the first resurrection. Some of the saints present will be wearing crowns already bestowed during the Bema Seat Judgment of Christ prior to the Marriage of the Lamb (there are 5 crowns that will be awarded). None of those present at the Bema seat will lose salvation, but they may lose some (or all) reward. All the Tribulation martyrs will be awarded Martyr's Crowns (and perhaps others too). While the Tribulation is occurring on Earth, the Bema Seat, and the Marriage of the Lamb occurs simultaneously in the heavens. This occurs not in Heaven but some other spiritual plane (the clouds). The witnesses to the Marriage will be the Old Testament saints in their spiritual bodies. Then the Bride (The Church) is brought back to the Earth by Christ, and the Bride is presented to Christ's friends. Who are Christ's friends? Those judged righteous at the end of the Tribulation and the Tribulation martyrs.

The entire period from Rapture to Millennial Kingdom is known as The Second Coming. The entire Tribulation period beginning with the signing of the covenant by the Beast and ending with Armageddon is known as The Tribulation. The last 3 1/2 years is known as The Great Tribulation (as stated by Christ), or as the Time of Jacob's Troubles (as foretold by Daniel).

It is at the loosing of that great lizard (Beelzebub) from the pit, that outright rebellion against Christ occurs at the end of His millennial reign. All those who yield to the lizard are zotted. The number of people alive at the end of the Millennial Kingdom are as the grains of sands on a beach. It is at this point that the second resurrection occurs. This is where all those that are in Hell are united with some sort of body (what kind of body? I don't know, but its not glorified). Suffice it to say that this body will be sufficiently equipped to endure eternal torment in The Lake of Fire. This is known as the second resurrection. These people will be joining the Beast (the Anti-Christ) and the False Prophet who are already in the Lake of Fire.

At some point the most heinous of the angels who rebelled against The Lord prior to The Fall of Man (if they're not there already) will greet them. Some of the lizard's most nepharious minions are presently held in bondage of darkeness in hell (I can't even imagine what that'd be like, i.e., to be imprisoned in hell). Nevertheless, the entire fallen angelic host are to be released from the Abyss and cast into the Lake of Fire. Satan specifically is sent there at Christ's second coming (to join the Beast and False Prophet already there) as will be the rest of his minions. Only the most nepharious of Satan's cohorts are presently in bondage (the rest are free to roam about and cause a ruckus). One has to wonder about that, in that these creatures have been pent up for millennia.

Smack in the middle of The Great Tribulation, the Abyss is opened, and the chief of the lizard's protagonists is let loose (along with hordes of its underlings) to wreak havok upon the world for 5 months. No damage to the earth will be caused, but the sun and air will be darkened from the smoke emanating from The Pit. The name of this angel is Abbadon (or in the Greek Apollyon. It and its helpers are a wee bit ticked off (and have a lot of catching up to do)). Their sole objective is purely torment (letting loose a little bit of frustration for their confinement). They're so successful in this regard, that men seek comfort in death (but can NOT find solace there). It truly will be Night of the Living Dead excepting it be writ large, i.e., for 5 months duration.

A good analogy of what occurs next during this period would be akin to that of a B-52 carpet bombing fire mission. The angel unlocks the Abyss about 1 1/4 years post-Abomination of Desolation (where the Beast sets itself on the throne in the Temple and demands it be worshipped) or about 4 3/4 years after tbe signing of the Covenant.

The final events that occur in The Great Tribulation are an earthquake and a hailstorm of dinner plate sized hailstones. I won't elaborate on the hailstorm, but the earthquake needs some: it has been theorized that an earthquake measuring 10 on the Richter scale would be felt all over the world. I implore people to read up on the Great New Madrid earthquake back in the 1830's. Church bells rang in Toronto as a result of it. They're not sure how large that earthquake was, but some estimates are about 9.5 My point is that the first hand accounts near the epicenter are staggering to the devastation and destruction that quake caused.

There will be angels flying through the heavens preaching to the earth, and still people will reject God's Word. The Two Prophets will proselytize The Word for at least 3 1/4 years (having the power to call fire down from heaven). Nevertheless, they will be martyred, their bodies lying in the streets for 3 1/2 days, and then will suddenly spring to life and ascend into heaven (a voice coming from there calling them hither). Clearly by this time something supernatural is going on, and yet people will still refuse to come to Him (and in fact curse and blaspheme Him for their troubles).

The final event of the Tribulation is the second second-coming of Christ at the Battle of Armageddon. The carnage caused there will result in the gore of battle rising to a horses bridle across a distance of 1600 furlongs (a furlong being a standard horse racing stadium race-track). Napoleon is on record after viewing the Plains of Meggidon, "A million men could be maneuvered here."

Mind you, this event is merely the first chapter of Christ's second coming, because at that time He really didn't actually come yet, in that the Biblical account intimates that He appears at the battle on top of a cloud. Furthermore, all people of the world become aware simultaneously that He's arrived. That notwithstanding, Christ's second second-coming is official when His feet touch the Mount of Olives, cleaving it in two, and He walking through the valley thus created, into the city, and seating himself upon the throne in The Temple. What follows next is a 75 day period of judgment and then 1000 years of environmental rebirth, global peace, love and tranquility unsurpassed and unknown since the beginning of history (or at least since Man was kicked out of the Garden).

I pray that the Holy Spirit compels you to look into the Truth, and that this hasn't merely unprofitable intellectual fulfillment. That being said, I will concede that the heart can't accept what the head doesn't know.

"Verily, verily, I say unto you, he that believeth upon me has everlasting life." - Jn 6:47 (cf. 6:40, 27, 54; et ali)

Judaism - The scattered Jewish exiles will be gathered to the geographic Israel, her enemies will be defeated, the third temple built, sacrifices resumed, the dead resurrected. The Jewish Messiah will become the King of Israel and divide Israel into its original tribes and defend it in a great war. God will intervene and banish all evil. After the 6,000th year of the Jewish calendar the seventh millennium will be holy, peaceful, tranquil. (Olam Haba) and all people will know God.

Islam - On a day of reckoning, God will resurrect and judge the dead, send the righteous to heaven and the evil to hell. This will be preceded by a Muhammed-like holy warrior, the Mahdi (twelfth imam) - who defends Islam from the antiChrist, beasts, etc.

Buddhism - Buddha's teachings will disappear and all will fall into ruin to be replaced by Maitreya and his teachings.

Baha’i

Redpoll - I find myself in agreement with the Baha'is. The Baha'i faith, in my limited understanding, would say that the Messiah of all the religions has already come and gone in the person of Baha'ullah. Most of us have been too self-absorbed or blind to notice. The tribulations mentioned in the Bible, surrounding the Twelfth Imam, and other apoloyptic beliefs describe the last century and how it will be considered by future generations. God continues to send us messages and prophets appropriate for our era and spiritual maturity (which appears to mean that someday the Baha'is will also be supplanted by another revelation). What I find most interesting is that adoption of the Baha'i faith by the world's Moslems - both religions have superficial similarities, especially in the form of worship (not in the application, though) - would seem to allow Moslems a way to find a Reformation-like entry into the modern world. Certainly a Middle East filled with Baha'is would be far different world. I guess that means the world never ends; we keep learning.

Hinduism All will fall into ruin followed by the appearance of an avatar (Kalki Avatar)

Northern Alliance correction: Hindus (Vedas) have a cyclical view of time. The universe is created and destroyed over a set period of time, over and over. It may be that an Avatar appears at the end of a cycle, but that would only be one milestone, so to speak - not a cause. The end of the universe is inevitable, and is contained within the birth.

little jeremiah - Well, according to the Puranas, we have exactly 427,000 more years to go before Kalki arrives, kills all the miscreants, and sets things to rights. Then a couple of hundred years of setting things to rights, and another Satya Yuga, which lasts, IIRC, 1,800,000 years. In which the earth is like a Garden of Eden and all is well. And so it goes, for a long time, until Brahma's night, when everything is destroyed. Then in his morning, all is created again, and goes through the yuga cyles. Cycles within cycles, destruction followed by creation followed by destruction etc. But beyond all this cyclic creation and destruction is the eternal Paravyoma, the eternal Kingdom of God. This material creation is just a shadow or cloud in the eternal sky. And yes, I take it as absolutely true.

Other Beliefs

Beagle8U - It never ends, God and life are eternal.

Cacique - It never ends, it simply starts all over again and we make the same mistakes again.

Glenn - Will anyone be around to tell another how it ends?

Durus - Suffice it to say that I don't believe in an "end" of the universe, or of time.

Netheron - I'm more of a wait and see what happens guy.

tet68 - Ask not for whom everything ends, it ends for everything, or something like that. Personally I'm going to meditate on compassion and hope for the best.

djf - I have personally pretty much abandoned any ideas of a theological basis for continuance. A God who demands we worship him, then simply gives no emperical evidence of his existence or an afterlife, is not particularly charitable, IMHO.

brazzaville - I would sort of subscribe to one of the atheistic scenarios, but my belief is that infinity is, well infinite, and the only collapse is, or may be, local. The universe is infinitely large and there are infinite numbers of possibility for how things will unfold. Hopefully in our reality we will have left the planet before the sun does it's thing.

dljordan - Mankind will be virtually destroyed in a holocaust. Survivors will crawl from the ashes. A group of guys will get together, invent a religion and form a hereditary preisthood and put everyone else to work for them. It starts all over from there.

Billthedrill - My own personal belief is that before death or after it I shall be regarding the whole thing with an open mouth and the wonder of a child. My elders and betters will make of it what they will and if I have a tiny humble part in it all it is more than I could ever hope to deserve... I'll see you there, I think, and together we will gape at it as children do at wonders beyond their imagination. That may be what we're made for. It isn't anything to be ashamed of. 'Night!

Focault’s Pendulum - I honestly don't know about the spirit or the soul. I would like to believe in it. There are times when I truly think that the end of our lives is simply the end of our existence. There are other times, when I backpack, and live in the forest, that there is a resuscitation of our beings. I hit the half century mark last year. What should it be that I desperately hold onto. Thirty years ago....I had all the answers..now I have more questions.

OntheDress - Tralfamadore is the home planet of aliens in novels by the Kurt Vonnegut. The planet's name is an anagram of "or fatal dream," a recurring concept in Vonnegut's novels. In Slaughterhouse-Five, they are beings who exist in all times simultaneously, and had knowledge of future events, including the destruction of the universe at the hands of a Tralfamadorian test pilot (oops). They kidnap Billy Pilgrim, the hero of the novel, and placed him in a zoo on Tralfamadore with Montana Wildhack, a porn actress.

fr_freak - I vote fire.

SOME say the world will end in fire,
Some say in ice.
From what I've tasted of desire
I hold with those who favor fire.
But if it had to perish twice,
I think I know enough of hate
To know that for destruction ice
Is also great
And would suffice.
-Robert Frost

KDD - it really never ends

Invictus

Out of the night that covers me,
Black as the Pit from pole to pole,
I thank whatever gods may be
For my unconquerable soul.

In the fell clutch of circumstance
I have not winced nor cried aloud,
Under the bludgeonings of chance
My head is bloody, but unbowed.

Beyond this place of wrath and tears
Looms but the horror of the shade,
And yet the menace of the years
Finds, and shall find me, unafraid.

It matters not how strait the gate,
How charged with punishments the scroll,
I am the master of my fate:
I am the captain of my soul.

-- William Ernest Henley

I Am Not Dead
Do not stand at my grave and weep;
I am not there. I do not sleep.
I am a thousand winds that blow;
I am diamond glints of snow;
I am the sunlight on ripened grain;
I am the gentle autumn's rain.
When you awaken in the morning's hush;
I am the swift uplifting rush
of quiet birds encircled flight.
I am the soft star that shines at night.
Do not stand at my grave and cry;
I am not there, I did not die.

Thomas Paine wrote in 'Age of Reason' that "I trouble not myself about the manner of future existence. I content myself with believing, even to positive conviction, that the power that gave me existence is able to continue it in any form and manner he pleases, either with or without this body". He also wrote ""Were man impressed as fully and as strongly as he ought to be with the belief of a God, his moral life would be regulated by the force of that belief; he would stand in awe of God and of himself, and would not do the thing that could not be concealed from either. ... This is Deism." Paine was a classic Deist. He explained his belief as well as it can be explained when he said...""We believe in the existence of a God, and in the immortality of the soul."

Pompah

Quite unexpecedly, as Vasserot the armless ambidextrian was lighting a match between his great and second toe,
And ralph the lion was engaged in biting the neck of Madame Sossman while the drum pointed, and teeny
was about to cough in waltz-time swinging Jocko by the thumb
Quite unexpectedly the top blew off:

Ans there, there overhead, there, there hung over those thousands of white faces,those dazed eyes,
There in the starless dark,the poise,the hover,
There with vast wings across the cancelled skies.
There in the sudden blackness the black pall of nothing,
nothing,nothing -- nothing at all.
Archibald MacLeish

Gleeaikin - When I was 20 (many years ago) I was in a time of searching, reading, going to some philosophy of religion classes with my boyfriend, visiting various churches. One evening while sitting, thinking deep thoughts, I was overcome by a feeling. The words are "dust thou art, and to dust thou shalt return". The feeling was of having all the particles of my being go back through everything they had ever been a part of, and all the particles of my being going forward into everything they ever will be a part of. The feeling lasted about a minute. I was totally plugged into the universe, totally connected. It was incandescent. It was PERFECT. 1 lost about half my fear of death, and no longer felt the need to search. I felt no need to convince anyone else of this "revealed experience". This is the first time I have shared it in public. I wonder if it might be connected with the "string theory" that has been in the science news recently.

Atheism/Agnosticism:

Big Crunch The universe expands by strictly naturalistic means and then collapses.

.cnI redruM

Cyclic The universe expands by strictly naturalistic means, collapses, and then expands again etc.

William Creel

Farlander - I'd like to propose that any of the "Atheism" options is not necessarily an "Atheist" point of view. It is quite common/rational to believe that God created the universe in which we live through the physical process some refer to as Big Bang (let there be light), and that either of the options under that category necessitates the end of the universe/life, one way or the other, returning to God in the spiritual realm. It is a quite valid spiritual option to believe in God, as the prime cause of creation of universe, but also believe in the scientific understanding of the universe. Whichever physical theory one supports in that category doesn't necessarily comprise a "faith/belief", because each of those theories has a physics model based on our limited understanding. So it is not necessarily even valid to offer them as faith-based choices - from the scientfic perspective they're only theories. Scientific theories and conjectures and faith is an apples and oranges kind of thing. One cannot just "believe" in a scientific theory. It's not science if you have to believe in it. Personally of those scientific options I like the cycle the best, it does seem to correspond to everything else in this universe - everything is a cycle. But to me it seems belief in god is separate from that.

Endless Expansion The universe never quits expanding but reaches maximum entropy killing everything anyway

WildHorseCrash

Will Zurmacht

AntiGuv - It never ends. There will always be something. The universe that we know is not a closed system. That there is a grander 'multiverse' beyond it, within which our universe is situated. Since I regard this grander reality as ultimately "all that there is" I see no reason to presume that a time will come when none of it is any longer.

Bang or Whimper

Lurker

My view is that "ultimate reality" or "all that there is" (or however one wants to put it) must be logically coherent. Therefore, you cannot have a "beginning" and you cannot have an "end" and you cannot have anything "beyond" and so on and so forth. In other words, in the grandest plane of existence, you could never ask a question like "What came before the Big Bang?" or "Where would you be if you stood at the edge of the universe and took one more step?"

Do you see where I'm going with that? Within the four dimensions that we are able to conceptualize a closed system is not possible. No matter how far back you unwind time there will always be a second beforehand; no matter how for down you wind up time there will always be a second afterward; and no matter how far out you go in space there will always be an inch further.

So, as I envision things, there must be a grander reality in which such paradoxes don't exist. Where everything clearly comes from something and from somewhere and there is nothing unbounded. That is inconceivable and incoherent in this universe and in the reality that we can perceive, so for that reason I conclude that there is a grander multiverse, of whatever nature that we cannot even begin to conceptualize. And so, having concluded that I see no reason why this would ever end. In fact, by definition it cannot end.

free_at_jsl.com – concurring with antiguv

And a Little Humor ...

Pcottraux - It will all end when you meet Chuck Norris.

Toby06 - The party is over when we run out of beer.

HairoftheDog - It'll end when Jack dies.

bmwcycle - Someday God will change the channel.

NicknamedBob - Obviously, it's all going to end as soon as I stop waking up. Y'all better be nice to me.

Domestic Church - "reaches maximum entropy" Some call that the state of Pennsylvania.

Will Zurmacht - Endless Expansion - this not only works on the cosmic level, but also explains my waistline

WestVirginiaRebel - Personally I like to think those who have earned it will spend eternity in Aslan's Country.

steve-b - DUmmieism: The Antichrist Bush as his evil minions Cheney and Rove will destroy the world for their own gain.

beyond the sea - It will end when Seattle Seahawk fans stop crying. It will end when Barbra Streisand learns how to spell. One or the other.

Tokra - 1) When the great turtle, on whose back the universe is riding, shrugs us off. 2) When the serpent biting its tail at the center of the earth bursts out.

Willie Green - As you may well know, MY personal belief it that societal entropy will cause the New World Order to collapse into a black hole...

#1CTYankee - The end will occur when the Redsox win back-to-back world series. So as any Boston fan knows it will never end!

The Toll - It will all end just fine if you just walk away. Just walk away, all I want is the gazoline and you can walk away.

Cate - I really am not in the mood to battle plagues and pestilience tonight. So if GOD is reading this thread, zap me up first... And I don't want the zap to hurt at all :) (how much more selfish can I be?)

Willie Green - This poll is biased...It doesn't include a choice for riding on a spaceship that's hiding behind the comet Hale-Bopp.

AD from SpringBay - This will be the beginning of the end: All the fat American children will deplete this nation of food and will wonder off into the oceans that have risen because of global warming. The remaining elderly will catch the bird flu.

Petronski - Big Trinidadian Crunch: The universe expands by strictly naturalistic means and then collapses when the mother of the bride destroys the universe because the caterer has badly buggered the wedding by serving nothing but garlic bread and home fries.

GLSlob - crucially depends on personal financial habits. Those who live thriftily, avoid debt, max out on their 401k's [and start doing it early], pick matching contributions and do not forget funding Roths - for them it is going to end pretty well. OTOH, for those on the opposite side of the spectrum it is going to end deservedly badly. Jedem das Seine - to each one's own.

freema - Early one glorious summer evening, as the sun was setting, I made haste to a special out-of-town commemoration service at one of my denomination's churches for the anniversary of an ordination. I missed a turn, had to go around the block, and needed a bathroom in the worst way. I pulled up on the side of the church, in a parking space on the street (easily) because there were no other vehicles in sight. As my eyes traveled to the church itself, I saw no lights, no people, no nothing. All that lay before me was a dark, empty church in the twilight.

I'd spotted a gas station while zipping around the block and after a brief puzzled hesitation wondered if I had my date and time correct. I made a beeline for the gas station, grabbed the bathroom key, took care of business and as I returned it to the attendant, I calmly asked about the church. He explained there was a smaller church a few blocks over, and I realized not only had I forgotten there were two churches in that town, but I'd just assumed the service was at the big church. I told the attendant how quiet, and still and EMPTY the big church was, and how eerie it had felt in the twilight -when I'd been expecting to find lights and lots of people. He laughingly supposed I'd had to wonder if the rapture had taken place and I'd been left behind : )

freedumb2003 - Wow -- all those data and not a single post about the election of Hillary as President as a marker for the End Times!

bIlluminati - the world ends when "All your base are belong to us."

King Prout - and you each may split the cost of my new keyboard.

[Alamo-Girl]

I do not plan on updating this survey any time soon, but if you would like your view to be considered, please post it here.

And please remember this is not a thread to discuss theology or scientific theories.

If you wish to argue for or against any particular belief system please take it up somewhere on the Religion Forum. This is just a survey!

[Alamo-Girl]

This is the final result of the Freeper Research Project. If you see anything that needs to be corrected, please let me know.

Thanks to all of you for contributing to this survey!

[Do not dub me shapka broham]

Always the wise guy, eh?

:^)

[Walkenfree]

Thank you for your many hours it must have taken to compile this wonderful survey! Very interesting indeed.

[Revelation 911]

bump your hard work - thanks AG

Pur me in the Rusty Shackleford column......Im generally of the position that aliens will continue infiltrating our genetic material through abductions. Once our genetic material is fully adulterated and we become worker drone, bee people, the government will introduce a pathogen to destroy mankind, rather than submit to alien domination.

The only part I have difficulty reconciling is why the govt doesnt take advantage of all the gun owners and air condition a few of those lizards at the first opportunity, excepting of course, the mass hysteria

Unfortunately, the resulting pandemic physically alters our appearance, and we will all resemble Fernando Lamas

[AmericaUnited]

For some reason, this graphic seems appropriate...

[bmwcyle]

It just goes to show we don't know for sure.

[#1CTYankee]

Nice job!

[beyond the sea]

"Petronski - Big Trinidadian Crunch: The universe expands by strictly naturalistic means and then collapses when the mother of the bride destroys the universe because the caterer has badly buggered the wedding by serving nothing but garlic bread and home fries." ----

****

LOL............ don't let this happen to you.

;-)

[TomSmedley]

This represents a sizeable body of work, and a fascinating portrait of the freeper family. We are all in your debt. BTW -- did you know that William Ernest Henley, the author of Invictus who celebrated his victory over life by taking his own, was the model R. L. Stephenson used for Long John Silver?

[Lee N. Field]

minor tweak -- you have me in under both premil and amil. What I actually said was "somewhere in the Amil-Postmil range".

[Just mythoughts]

Very nicely done, BUMP.

[JockoManning]

Good job, Alamo-Girl.

The Comfort of Christ’s Coming

   
13 But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus.^[b]
15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.

 

 

[Salem]

And a Little Humor ...

With the serious content of the subject of this survey and the times we live in, it is the humorous contributions which once again temper it all. Too funny!  

Now that's funny, I don't care who you are!

[Uri’el-2012]

Amillennialism: (Also known as Nonmillennialism).............

... XeniaSt (ex amil)

Please make that: XeniaSt ( ex amil roman catholic)

Thank you L-rd for breathing on me and drawing me close to you !

b'shem Y'shua

PS Blessings on you and yours for the work.

[Petronski]

,I>LOL............ don't let this happen to you.

Taking every precaution, my friend. We're taking every precaution.

[cyborg]

You'd better because you know everything is YOUR fault.

[Petronski]

You'd better because you know everything is YOUR fault.

It's true.

I'm having a shirt made. ;O)

[Supernatural]

Very interesting results. Many different beliefs shown here.

[beyond the sea]

Garlic and moist RAW nuts will (perhaps) keep you from having prostate "problems" ..... eat garlic and raw nuts (almonds and walnuts are great)..............AFTER the wedding night and EVERY night after that!