Creationist draws large crowd

York Daily Record (York, PA) ^ | 18 March 2006 | TERESA MCMINN

[Greg o the Navy]

Mar 18, 2006 — In a back row of a packed auditorium, seventh-grader Matt Frysinger and his two friends each sat with a skateboard positioned vertically between their knees and the floor. The boys had been skating in the area when they saw a sign promoting a "Creation Seminar" outside Dover Area High School.

[ahayes]

Nope, ICR tenets confirmed: http://www.icr.org/index.php?module=articles&action=view&ID=168

[dread78645]

And based on the URL, it looks like it is a joke anyway.

No Joke.

To be eligible for admission, applicants must have:

* A bachelor's degree
* A satisfactory grade-point average, especially in upper division and any graduate work (see Grade-Point Average, below)
* Adequate subject preparation for the proposed graduate major
* Evidence of personal integrity, good character. and agreement with the ICR purpose, goals, and tenets

-- http://www.icr.edu/admissions.html

All members must subscribe to the following statement of belief:

1. The Bible is the written Word of God, and because it is inspired throughout, all its assertions are historically and scientifically true in the original autographs. To the student of nature this means that the account of origins in Genesis is a factual presentation of simple historical truths.

2. All basic types of living things, including man, were made by direct creative acts of God during the Creation Week described in Genesis. Whatever biological changes have occurred since Creation Week have accomplished only changes within the original created kinds.

3. The great flood described in Genesis, commonly referred to as the Noachian Flood, was an historic event worldwide in its extent and effect.

4. We are an organization of Christian men and women of science who accept Jesus Christ as our Lord and Savior. The account of the special creation of Adam and Eve as one man and one woman and their subsequent fall into sin is the basis for our belief in the necessity of a Savior for all mankind. Therefore, salvation can come only through accepting Jesus Christ as our Savior.

-- http://www.creationresearch.org/belief_wndw.htm

[dread78645]

There's a Japanese word for that...

Running out of keyboards ...

[Oztrich Boy]

Wonder how many folks here get that reference.

Ah-hem 15 posted on 04/25/2003 4:17:31 PM PDT by Oztrich Boy (Paging Nehemiah Scudder:The Crazy Years are peaking. America is ready for you.)

(Looks very much like that was my first tagline on FR)

[planetesimal]

Now, Hovind is nutty but he's entertaining - if you haven't seen him its worth downloading a couple of videos.

Indeed:

Opened in 2001, Dinosaur Adventure Land sprung from Hovind's Creation Science Evangelism ministry, which began to evolve in the late '80s. CSE sells videos and audiotapes of Hovind's lectures and his debates with evolutionary scientists, along with books on "Evolution and the New World Order." (At least one of them, Fourth Reich of the Rich, alleges a Jewish conspiracy to take over the world.) Hovind also points his followers to Citizens Rule Book, popular among antigovernment "Patriots"; Media Bypass, an antigovernment magazine with strong anti-Semitic leanings; and titles by America's leading authority on tax-dodging, Irwin Schiff, who was indicted on criminal tax evasion charges in March ... Two years ago, Hovind's "fine Christian friend," Joseph Sweet of the Joy Foundation, ran into similar trouble, sued by the feds for allegedly teaching folks how to evade income taxes.

And:

Hovind, who runs the Creation Science Evangelism ministry from Pensacola, Fla., says the whole Bible is literally true and that the Earth is only 6,000 years old. While that may seem par for the creationist course, Hovind also sells anti-Semitic books like Fourth Reich of the Rich and has recommended The Protocols of the Elders of Zion, a book blaming the world's problems on a Jewish conspiracy. Environmentalism and income taxes, Hovind says, are designed to destroy the United States and "bring it under Communism." "Democracy," he says, "is evil and contrary to God's law."

His dishonest huckerism isn't his only trick. Race-hate, tax-evasion and subversion of democracy make him 'entertaining'.

[inquest]

I wouldn't take at face value anything put out on anyone by the Southern Poverty Law Center.

[Fester Chugabrew]

I'd like to see a random sampling of skulls from every people of every age all around the planet as they are this very moment and compare them to your diagram in order to see whether the variance between modern day human skulls is as "diverse." Even a cursory look at my neighbor reveals a different skull shape. One look at an evo skull reveals little more than a modern day wood block. How come none of them show up in your diagram?

[Junior]

Airplane II Quotes

[2ndreconmarine]

But hey, I guess *you* know better than 10,000+ Christian clergy, eh? You "ignorance is strength" guys crack me up. .....

Beautifully articulated, as always!!!

--- One of the two fans of Ichneumon.

[planetesimal]

Why? What in particular in the quoted extracts should not be considered factual? They've been published for years without sanction. What about the paper that article at the top of the thread: link The guy who organised Hovind's circus believes gays should be executed and Jews who try to rebut anti-semitism are animated by the antichrist. The charming duo seem to have common cause.

[Junior]

He has more than two fans, believe me.

[inquest]

[I wouldn't take at face value anything put out on anyone by the Southern Poverty Law Center.]

Why?

Because they have a major leftist agenda of their own. Everything they say needs to be subject to verification, in context.

The guy who organised Hovind's circus believes gays should be executed and Jews who try to rebut anti-semitism are animated by the antichrist.

Neither your link, nor the one at the top of the thread, bears that out.

[Californiajones]

Your arguments keep reducing themselves to personal attacks on my character; revealing a personal spiritual issue, and a need of the miraculous indwelling of the Holy Spirit. This is what was promised by the Prophet Joel and what Peter and the disciples partook of on the day of Pentecost. This is the whole message and meaning of Christianity; that we are doomed to our sinful animalistic selfishness (call it Darwin's survival of the fittest if you like) and that by having external laws in the form of the Ten Commandments alone, we humans could never resolve the problem of sin. That is why God sent His son to die in our place as sinners on the cross.

If we are honest with ourselves, the problems of humanity are moral issues of sin, not political constructs or the comings and goings of nation states. For if men would simply adhere to the Ten Commandments, truly loving thy neighbor as thyself and loving God more than anything -- there would be no war, no greed, no lust, no selfishness, no lies, no defiling of the innocent.

You my friend, just like every other sinner on the planet, need to ask Jesus into your heart and ask Him, like a child, to forgive you of your sins and create in you a clean heart. This is the reason for Christianity and, in it, is the creative power of the entire universe: to soften our hardened hearts with love.

Just as the man who was the great "I am" -- Jesus was, and is, and is to come -- meaning He was with God when the creation was made and did come in the flesh to die for our sins and will still be coming again for His bride the church -- this greatest of all human beings, Jesus of Nazareth, was a lowly man, humble, not that great looking, but He was God made flesh for us. You Ichneumon, need to ask this Jesus into your heart.

"By a man's words, his heart is revealed" and your accusatory tone reveals a self-accusatory nature that needs to be laid at the foot of the cross. In other words, what we accuse others of, we ourselves are guilty. Take it to the cross, and I say this because you call yourself a Christian, not because I think having what Christ promises us will change your mind on evolution but because your subtly ad hominim attacks reveal a spiritual need.

[jennyp]

I'd like to see a random sampling of skulls from every people of every age all around the planet as they are this very moment and compare them to your diagram in order to see whether the variance between modern day human skulls is as "diverse." Even a cursory look at my neighbor reveals a different skull shape. One look at an evo skull reveals little more than a modern day wood block. How come none of them show up in your diagram?

That's an astute observation, Fester. So I take it you think that all those skulls (B thru L, that is) are just variations on the "human kind"? Or is there some obvious macroevolutionary gap there between us and the "ape kind"?

[VadeRetro]

What you are suggesting to Fester is quite impossible. We have it on unimpeachable authority that anyone can see A through I are apes, whereas J on up are just variations within human-kind. How can anyone not know an ape from a human?

[2ndreconmarine]

He has more than two fans, believe me.

Of course.

I was joking. Read his about page and you will understand.

[fabian]

there would be at least many true examples of partially formed limbs, etc of animals transforming themselves. But they just don't exist. If they did this debate would have been over. It's just our darkside that wants us to believe that we came from lower animals so we can feel better about our bad side.

[editor-surveyor]

No evidence there of evolution, just a bunch of extinctions, but that has been the norm.

[2ndreconmarine]

You my friend, just like every other sinner on the planet, need to ask Jesus into your heart and ask Him, like a child, to forgive you of your sins and create in you a clean heart.

There are lots of ways to attack someone's character. The sheer paternalism of your comments certainly qualify. Who are you to minister to another who has not requested it?? Are you clergy too??

Patronizing is certainly no way to spread the gospel.

If we are honest with ourselves,

Ah, there is the central issue. I personally do not doubt your faith. Moreover, I do not doubt or question the faith of any creationist. And as long as they stick to the notion of "my faith above science and all other things." I have no problem with that. I don't think it is too smart, but it is honest.

Where creationism becomes a complete lie is when they pretend that they are doing science, such as the creationist websites. The notion that the world was created 7,000 years ago because of Polonium halos, too many comets, or insufficient supernovae. This stuff is a joke. It doesn't meet the standard of science. That part is a lie.

By the way, in your first post you mentioned grad school ... here

An interesting turn of phrase.

You didn't mention your degree and you don't have an about page, so I don't know. You did not mention your school or course of study. Where I come from, there were two kinds of people in grad school: those who got Ph.Ds and those who failed the General Exams. I am curious, which one are you? Or, did you attend the graduate school at the Discovery Institute or something??? It is a fair question. Creationists argue that they are in peer-reviewed journals because they have been published in some Creationist journal.

No attack on your character. I am just curious based on your interesting response.

[planetesimal]

Because they have a major leftist agenda of their own. Everything they say needs to be subject to verification, in context.

So you implied in your well-tainting previous post. Enlighten me by pointing out the lies in the extracts, or the entire articles. I think you have a problem with the fact the information is being reported, rather than its validity.

Neither your link, nor the one at the top of the thread, bears that out.

I'm used to WYSIWYG forums; that wasn't the intention. The last link actually does support the latter position, and this one the former.