Supreme court judge Mawlavizada on March 19 holds a Bible that belongs to Abdul Rahman, who converted from Islam to Christianity. (REUTERS)
Posted on 03/19/2006 9:44:45 AM PST by cgk
This story deserves much more attention than it's getting. Via VOA News (hat tip: Doug at Below the Beltway):
An Afghan man who recently admitted he converted to Christianity faces the death penalty under the country's strict Islamic legal system. The trial is a critical test of Afghanistan's new constitution and democratic government.
The case is attracting widespread attention in Afghanistan, where local media are closely monitoring the landmark proceedings.
Abdul Rahman, 40, was arrested last month, accused of converting to Christianity. Under Afghanistan's new constitution, minority religious rights are protected but Muslims are still subject to strict Islamic laws. And so, officially, Muslim-born Rahman is charged with rejecting Islam and not for practicing Christianity.
Appearing in court earlier this week Rahman insisted he should not be considered an infidel, but admitted he is a Christian. He says he still believes in the almighty Allah, but cannot say for sure who God really is. "I am," he says, "a Christian and I believe in Jesus Christ."
Rahman reportedly converted more than 16 years ago after spending time working in Germany. Officials say his family, who remain observant Muslims, turned him over to the authorities. On Thursday the prosecution told the court Rahman has rejected numerous offers to embrace Islam. Prosecuting attorney Abdul Wasi told the judge that the punishment should fit the crime.
He says Rahman is a traitor to Islam and is like a cancer inside Afghanistan. Under Islamic law and under the Afghan constitution, he says, the defendant should be executed. The court has ordered a delay in the proceedings to give Rahman time to hire an attorney. Under Afghan law, once a verdict is given, the case can be appealed twice to higher courts.
This is the first case in which the defendant has admitted to converting and is refusing to back down, even while facing the death penalty.
Here, via the Middle East Times, is the "evidence" against Rahman that may lead to his execution:
Supreme court judge Mawlavizada on March 19 holds a Bible that belongs to Abdul Rahman, who converted from Islam to Christianity. (REUTERS)
What do Afghan President Hamid Karzai and President Bush have to say about the monstrous possibility that Rahman may be executed for professing faith in Jesus Christ and possessing a Bible?
So far, nothing.
Do you think Christians can be libertarian?
More statement of fact
Who Is This Allah?, G. J. O. Moshay, 1994, p 138
"Historians like Vaqqidi have said Allah was actually the chief of the 360 gods [one for each day of the year] being worshipped in Arabia at the time Muhammad rose to prominence.
Ibn Al-Kalbi gave 27 names of pre-Islamic deities...Interestingly, not many Muslims want to accept that Allah was already being worshipped at the Ka'ba in Mecca by Arab pagans before Muhammad came.
Some Muslims become angry when they are confronted with this fact. But history is not on their side. Pre-Islamic literature has proved this." (Who Is This Allah?, G. J. O. Moshay, 1994, p 138)
One might believe that many many Muslims, would choose not to be held thrall under this horrid system. My point is that they don't have a choice, and folks like you lumping everyone together just assumes that they do.
The Problem of the Apostate's Execution from a Legal Perspective
To everyone acquainted with Islamic law it is no secret that according to Islam the punishment for a Muslim who turns to kufr (infidelity, blasphemy) is execution. Doubt about this matter first arose among Muslims during the final portion of the nineteenth century as a result of speculation. Otherwise, for the full twelve centuries prior to that time the total Muslim community remained unanimous about it. The whole of our religious literature clearly testifies that ambiguity about the matter of the apostate's execution never existed among Muslims. The expositions of the Prophet, the Rightly-Guided Caliphs (Khulafa'-i Rashidun), the great Companions (Sahaba) of the Prophet, their Followers (Tabi'un), the leaders among the mujtahids and, following them, the doctors of the shari'ah of every century are available on record. All these collectively will assure you that from the time of the Prophet to the present day one injunction only has been continuously and uninterruptedly operative and that no room whatever remains to suggest that perhaps the punishment of the apostate is not execution.
Some people have been influenced by the so-called enlightenment of the present age to the point that they have opened the door to contrary thoughts on such proven issues. Their daring is truly very astonishing. They have not considered that if doubts arise even about such matters which are supported by such a continuous and unbroken series of witnesses, this state of affairs will not be confined to one or two problems. Hereafter anything whatever of a past age which has come down to us through verbal tradition will not be protected from doubt, be it the Qur'an or ritual prayer (namaz) or fasting (roza). It will come to the point that even Muhammad's mission to this world will be questioned. In fact a more reasonable way for these people, rather than creating doubt of this kind, would have been to accept as fact what is fact and is proven through certified witnesses, and then to consider whether or not to follow the religion which punishes the apostate by death. The person who discovers any established or wholesome element of his religion to conflict with his intellectual standards and then tries to prove that this element is not really a part of the religion, already proves that his affliction is such that, "You cannot become a kafir (infidel); since there is no other choice, become a Muslim" (kafer natavani shod nachar Musalman sho). In other words, though his manner of thought and outlook has deviated from the true path of his religion, he insists on remaining in it only because he has inherited it from his forefathers.
http://answering-islam.org.uk/Hahn/Mawdudi/#I
One might believe that many many Muslims, would choose not to be held thrall under this horrid system. My point is that they don't have a choice"
They do have a choice.The question is if the choice is worth the consequences.
I don't lump them all together.
Just the ones doing it, the ones supporting it, and the ones lying about it.
The ones that hate it, but are too scared to do anything about it are of no consequence to the matter.
We need a program in Afghanistan similiar to the de-nazification of Germany after Hitler.I agree with you-no WAY Sharia Law and remnants of Taliban fascism should be allowed to exist in a country that was responsible for so much American sacrifices.
stand-for-nothings...
RIGHT?
I don't know how carefully I read your post because I apparently misunderstood your point.
Oh, well.. its not good enough to shrug one's shoulders and accept that these people will win. This reminds me so much of the Communists selling their message of a proletarian utopia and delivering horror and misery.
Its amazing that there are real communists and socialists in this United States, and they are shockingly a large component of the loonie left that is controlling the Democratic Party. This shows that just because a system is discredited and morally bankrupt, doesn't mean smart big hearted people can't be sucked in. Still, exposing these horrors to the light of day is the only answer... and this means that for Islam, we have to confront the crimes it proposes and ask for the faithful to defend them if they can.
no stand for sanity
I may get flamed for saying this but its my opinion that Ms. Malkin is the Affirmative Action Poster Child for the conservative movement!
Yep,if she wan't a pretty Filipina woman do you really think she would get the exposure she does?She is not particularly original or intellectually deep and many white male conservative intellects would better serve the cause than sexy Michelle.
But she IS eye candy and I guess we like to have her fine self in our corner.
GETTING YOUR COMPASS OUT TO FACE THE EAST...
You don't have to believe in absolutism for it to kill you. There are 1.2 billion absolutists who will happily show you the errors of that mind-set.
What, you got a cricket in your ear? Shrill my foot.
During WWII, Europe was more of less completely rid of fascism within 5 years of our involvement. High-explosives and lead work wonders in correcting this kind of behavior.
Bingo. Look, folks; I've been there recently, I've studied the country since 1980, and I occasionally teach Guard and Reserve servicemen going there what to expect, as what they call in DOD a Subject Matter Expert.
The UN had a list with 240-odd countries and regions on it, called in UN Development Index. When the TB took over Afghanistan, the country dropped off the list because the level of development was so low it could not be practically measured. Literacy, for instance, bottomed out at 3%, and after that nobody could find literate survey takers to go around and ask people if they could read.
There are few roads and they hadn't been touched for maintenance since the Russians left in 1989, and no railroad at all. Air transport? Forget it. the country was out of people who had the know-how to fix sturdy Russian jeeps, let alone jet mechanics. Half the population of Afghanistan were refugees in other countries, and half the refugees in the world were displaced Afghans.
Medical care? There were some qualified doctors, Afghans mostly, and nurses, but the Taliban hindered even them, and they had no supplies. Think about the medical treatment your own children have had and imagine living somewhere where there was no surgery, no antibiotics, no medical evacuation, no sterile conditions in the hospital. Children -- and adults -- die every day of diseases that are beaten in the civilized world. Hell, bearing a child, a woman was rolling a 9-sided die with one side labeled "you both perish."
I saw malnutrition that would make you cry, "5-year-olds" who turned out to be 9 and "70-year-olds" who turned out to be 35. I saw meningitis, tuberculosis, cholera, more parasites that I had ever imagined (EVERYBODY had worms), a distressed woman with the arm of a stillborn child hanging out of her, a beautiful little girl who had no arm thanks to a butterfly mine left by the Russians 20 years ago and still perfectly functional.
I saw a tough farmer with his foot swollen to basketball size with infection (we lanced the abscess after taking syringes of pus out, and it still shot into the medic's eye; but the man will live and walked again), and kid with an abscess in his cheek that let you see from outside in to his jawbone (we medevaced him, and got him back with a cross note from the surgeons that his case was too severe and required too much follow up).
I had old men weeping in joy that a particular taliban warlord had been taken from over them. I had widows demanding vengeance for their murdered husbands. I had two children come thirty miles on foot; we had PUC'd their father and they admitted he was a Taliban, but in our haste, we'd grabbed some family papers, including their birth certificates, which they needed now that a school was opening. (We managed to get back all the non-incriminating documents, almost the only time the MPs and interrogators ever responded to us).
The point of all this rant is that the country is more screwed up than Hogan's goat. The people, mostly, are hard-working, entrepreneurial, and interested in advancing their families rather than murdering their neighbours, for the first time in thirty-plus years.
But it's not the least bit surprising, when you think about it, that during the time that the liberal (relatively), internationally savvy Afghans were in exile or at war, the country descended under a veil of superstition and backwardness. IT WILL TAKE TIME for Afghans to absorb pluralistic values, and ramrodding them into their culture (as Russia did with its state religion, Communism) is not going to work.
Thank God the Taliban was toppled...
Indeed. An expression I have heard in Dari and Pushtu a lot ;)
... but to think that all heinous practices in the country are going to be stopped in a handful of years is extremely naive.
I agree.
My personal prediction on this is that the offending Christian will be sentenced to death by the court, and an apellate court or the executive will modify this to a sentence of exile so that they don't actually have to execute him. I doubt anybody actually wants to kill him -- Afghans have had enough killing to last for centuries.
Note that if this were happening in Saudi Arabia, the guy's head would be on the second bounce by now.
d.o.l.
Criminal Number 18F
Now, for something completely different
Mohammad The Pedophile
PEDOPHILIA : [NL] (1906): sexual perversion in which children are the preferred sexual object.
[Scriptural Evidence] Volume 7, Book 62, Number 64: Sahih Bukhari [the most venerated and authentic Islamic source]
Narrated 'Aisha: that the Prophet married her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old, and then she remained with him for nine years (i.e. till his death).
Mongomerry Watts states: "Muhammed seemed to have felt a SPECIAL TENDERNESS towards children."
The Moral Standard Muslims look upto, Prophet Mohammad : " ... Sounds like child molestation to me. It does not appear to me that the founder of Islam was a man of peace or good moral character. " - Anonymous.
Muslims Practising Islam :
Compilation of Ishaq b. Mansur al-Kasaj, ... found in Chapters on Marriage and Divorce, translated by Spectorsky, in the ruling that a woman "IS OF AGE WHEN SHE HAS REACHED HER NINTH YEAR !"
" Two iraqi men, aged 28 amd 34, who live in lincoln, nebraska, married two iraqi girls, aged 13 and 14, in a private Islamic ceremony attended by family and friends. The two men have been arrested, charged with the sexual assault of a child and could be sentenced to 50 years of prison because the marriage age in nebraska is at least 17 years of age. Their attorney argued that the men didn't know about the law and that they were merely following their religious custom of courtship and marriage. Do they really do such things in today's Iraq? " - Abdul Abdi
" The point I would like to make is that The Muslim world has been exploiting younger girls a quite sometime now in the name of Islam. These are child abuse and it does occurred in a daily basis throughout Islamic world, including your birth place, Somalia. Rich Arab Muslims have been caught on the exit ports of India and Malaysia leaving with clueless, helpless girls clutching onto their dolls and other meager belongings. " -Faisal Hassan.
"Now you want to clebrate American man made system while ignoring one of the things islamic shariah APPROVES. What a shameful statement?!!. Please note: Islamically, there is NOTHING wrong of marrying fifteen OR LESS as long as they have period and full feminhood signs. Any women reach the age of period can be married if and when she decided to ratify the contract of marraige.. That was the way our Prophet peace upon him got marry Caasha [ Ayesha ] . And that was the way our great Somali women delivered the majority of us. I DON'T THINK YOU WILL DARE TO SAY OUR PROPHET (PBUH) EXPLOITED ON CAASHA. [ Ayesha / Aisha ]" - daud7@aol.com (Daud7)
Inspired By Islam (What the most famous cleric has to say):
From Khomeini's book, "Tahrirolvasyleh", fourth volume, Darol Elm, Gom, Iran, 1990 :
A man can have sexual pleasure from a child as young as a baby. However he should not penetrate, sodomising the child is OK. If the man penetrates and damages the child then he should be responsible for her subsistence all her life. This girl, however does not count as one of his four permanent wives. The man will not be eligible to marry the girls sister.
[...]
It is better for a girl to marry in such a time when she would begin menstruation at her husband's house rather than her father's home. Any father marrying his daughter so young will have a permanent place in heaven.
How it all began ( a long time ago in the isolated deserts of Arabia) :
Already, when Aisha (the daughter of Abu Bakr, Mohammad's closest friend and unquestioning ally) was about 4-5 years old Muhammad started dreaming of a union with her [Ref: SAHIH BUKHARI, 5:235] and he wasted no time in realizing his dreams, inspite of the fact that object of his dreams was a mere child.Perhaps you want to assume that it is "normal" for a 50+ year old man to dream of marrying a 4-5 old child, and then ACTUALLY ask for her hand at 6?
Is it normal for an oversexed old man (Muhammad had over 9 wives and concubines) to dream of a union with a 4-5 year old girl?
Muhammad ( SAW ) was basically oversexed, his sexual relationship with Aisha is a special case, which fits his strong need for a larger latitude to satisfy his sexual urge, as is witnessed by:
"The Prophet used to visit all his wives in a round, during the day and night and they were eleven in number." I asked Anas, "Had the Prophet the strength for it?" Anas replied, "We used to say that the Prophet was given the strength of thirty (men)." And Sa'id said on the authority of Qatada that Anas had told him about nine wives only (not eleven)." [Bukhari.1:268]
When she was 6, Muhammad asked Abu Bakr, Aisha's father, for her hand. Abu Bakr thought it was improper, because, as he said "I am your brother"; Muhammad brushed aside Abu Bakr's reservation by saying that it was perfectly lawful for him to marry Aisha [ Ref: SAHIH BUKHAR I7:18].
What happened to " there is no compulsion in matters of religion ?" Anyway what compulsion did Muhhammad need being a prophet his word was law, he restricted men to only four wives when he himself had more than four, that was a convenient exemption for Muhhammad.
So, Aisha was betrothed to Muhammad, and 3 years later, i.e. when Aisha was 9, the marriage was consumed. And Muhammad was 53 then [SAHIH BUKHARI 5:236,7:64,7:65,7:88] .
The 3 year waiting period probably had to do with the fact that at that time Aisha had contracted some disease, whereby she, temporarily lost her hair. Aisha was then socially and psychologically still a child as is evidenced by the fact that she was still given to her toys, she was unaware of what was happening around her, and her playmates behave as would the children at present times [Sahih Bukhari 8:151,5:234].
Aisha became Muhammad's favourite wife. And the sexuality in the relationship was predominant [ SAHIH BUKHARI .1.270, 3:36, 7:6, 3:148, 3:149, 3:150, 7:142, IbnSa'd 1pg165 ]. Later, Aisha was to be called the "mother of believers".
If you are wandering, yes, the relationship was pedophilic.
When did the sexual relations between Prophet Mohammad and his child bride begin?
Unfortunately we do not have any video recordings of such events. Neither can we expect that there would be any explicit statements regarding this. In any case it is certain that she had NOT reached puberty when she moved into Muhammad's house, which in itself, contrary to the prevailing social norms, is a tacit implication that he may indulge in whatever fantasies he may have had when he asked for Aisha's hand. And Muhammad did have fantasies.
Volume 8, Book 73, Number 151:
Narrated 'Aisha: I used to play with the dolls in the presence of the Prophet, and my girl friends also used to play with me. When Allah's Apostle used to enter (my dwelling place) they used to hide themselves, BUT the Prophet would call them to join and play with me. (The playing with the dolls and similar images is forbidden, but it was allowed for 'Aisha at that time, as she was a little girl, not yet reached the age of puberty.) (Fateh-al-Bari page 143, Vol.13)
It is, however, very unlikely that Muhammad would have waited for the onset of the menses; or at most it could have been just after the 1st drops. The evidence is necessarily indirect.
# His strong desire to "graze of the (tree) of which nothing has been eaten before", as his other wives had not been virgins.
# Menses or fasting do not reduce Muhammad's desire and potency for sex. His nightly rounds to his wives(lastly 12-13) did require more than average potency.
# New additions to his harem lead to intensive sexual activity, e.g. arrival of Maria lead to increased, initial spurt of sexual activity to the neglect of others .
# The intervals between prayers are used for quick stands "I used to wash the traces of Janaba (semen) from the clothes of the Prophet and he used to go for prayers while traces of water were still on it."
# Other wives try to please Muhammad by sacrificing their turns in favor of Aisha.
# During his last fatal illness he cries: "Where will I be tomorrow? Where will I be tomorrow?", seeking Aisha's turn.
Prophet Say: Marry Young Virgins
Volume 7, Book 62, Number 17:
Narrated Jabir bin 'Abdullah:
When I got married, Allah's Apostle said to me, "What type of lady have you married?" I replied, "I have married a matron' He said, "Why, don't you have a liking for the young virgins and for fondling them?" Jabir also said: Allah's Apostle said, "Why didn't you marry a young girl so that you might play with her and she with you?'
Silent Children :
Volume 7, Book 62, Number 67:
Narrated Abu Huraira:
The Prophet said, "A matron should not be given in marriage except after consulting her; and a virgin should not be given in marriage except after her permission." The people asked, "O Allah's Apostle! How can we know her permission?" He said, "Her silence (indicates her permission)."
Where sex is akin to a crime, silence is admission of your guilt. What a corruption of "fitrah" ( human nature).
What religion condones the destruction of childhood? What are we who daily avow our undying love for Allah to do against a system that ruthlessly oppresses its youngest and brightest ?
* What was Aisha's age? I have heard other figures ... (A question also known as: How many of your own sources will you deny ? )
All the relevant sources (Bukhari, Ibn Hisham, Tabari, Ibn al-Athir, Ibn Sa'd, Ibn Hanbal, etc.) maintain that Aisha was bethroted to Mohammed when she was 6, and the marraige was consummated 3 years later.
'Mahommad - The Word of Allah' written by Anne-Marie Delcambre. (Anne-Marie Delcambre has a doctorate in 'Islamology', and taught Islamic Civilisation at the Saint Joseph University of Beyrouth in Lebanon). On page 69, it says that he was married to her when she was 9 years old.
Dates commonly accepted by scholars: Birth Muhammad(570), birth Aisha(614 or 615). Bethrothal(620 or 621), Consummation of marriage(623 or 624). In particular the "consummation" of marriage is said to have taken place after the hidjra in Shawwal 1 or 2. Between 621 and 623 Asiha is said to have contracted a disease whereby she temporarily lost her hair. (Ref 1)
She could not have been more than 10 years when she went to live in Muhammad's house. The fact that she took her toys with her to her new home indicates that she was psychologically and socially still a child. And the fact that she was allowed to play with DOLLS indicates that she had NOT reached puberty by this time. ("The playing with the dolls and similar images was(is) forbidden, but it was allowed for Aisha at that time, as she was a little girl, not yet reached the age of puberty."Fateh-al-Bari page 143, Vol.13). Besides, there is also Aisha's own statement which implies that she had NOT reached puberty when she moved into Muhammad's house[Sahih Bukhari 7.163]. I am sure she would have been able to recount accurately as to when and where she got her first menses. Most girls do remember such events rather accurately. (Refs 2)
What is "sick" is that Muhammad had started to dream of a union with Aisha already when she was 4-5 years old: "You were shown to me twice (in my dream) before I married you...(and) I said (to myself), 'If this is from Allah, then it must happen." He was to use a similar tactic when he wanted to marry his step son's wife. A tactic which Aisha later came to understand as fraud, as in: "Aisha said: O Allah's Apostle! I do not see, but, that your Lord hurries in pleasing you." (Refs 2)
Muhammad wasted no time in realizing what he had been dreaming. Already when Aisha was 6 "The Prophet asked Abu Bakr for 'Aisha's hand in marriage. Abu Bakr said "But I am your brother." The Prophet said, "You are my brother in Allah's religion and His Book, but she (Aisha) is lawful for me to marry." Here it does not seem that Abu Bakr consented to the marriage wholeheartedly.
REFERENCES (1) Les femmes du Prophete Prof.Magali Morsi, Professor of History, University of Muhammed V, Rabat, Morocco.
(2) Shahih Bukhari: [1.229] [1.230] [1.231] [1.232] [1.233] [1.258] [1.263] [1.267] [1.270] [1.294] [1.296] [1.298] [1.299] [3.148] [3.149] [3.150] [3.853] [4.736] [5.235] [5.236] [5.731] [7.14] [7.15] [7.57] [7.48] [7.57] [7.64] [7.65] [7.86] [7.88] [7.90] [7.144] [7.163] [8.151] [9.139] [9.140]
* "And if a woman is sexually mature I see nothing wrong with her marriage in general, with a man of any age... "- A muslim.
For those Muslims who approve of the above statement ( and hold similar views ): Would you let your daughters go through this ?
Pedophile ?
What are the essential features of pedophilia.?
Professors of psychiatry, Harold I.Kaplan MD and Benjamin J.Sadock MD. of New York University Medical School states the essential features to diagnose pedophilia are:
1.Identification with and narcissistic investment in immature sexual objects.
Muhammad's infatuation and relationship with Aisha fits this criterion. And Mohammad was vain too - he liked to use perfume and dye his hair (even as an old man).
2. Control, domination and seduction of children.
A slight recalcitrance on the part of his wives was met by intolerant threats like: "if he (Muhammad) divorce you, (Allah) will give him in your place wives better than you, submissive, faithful, obedient, penitent, adorers, fasters, widows and virgins." [K 66.5]
3. Sexual activity with children is preferential and occur repeatedly.
Aisha was ever present, right up to his last fatal breath and he preferred spending his nights with her. Aisha became Muhammad's favorites wife. And the sexuality in the relationship was predominant. [Sahih Bukhari 1.270,3:36,7:6,3:148,3:149,3:150,7:142,IbnSa'd 1pg165]
Is menses necessary indicator of sexual maturity ?
Sexual maturity is NOT PURELY RELATED TO MENSES as for some peculiar reasons many Muslims have tried to say.
In the first place having or not having menses is not the criterion for sexual maturity, and thus of pedophilic behaviour. We have cases here, of abducted girls, 12, 13, 14, well past their mens, and yet preferred by pedophiles as sexual objects.
Besides when Aisha was about 4-5 years old Muhammad started dreaming of a union with her [Sahih Bukhari 5:235]- I am sure Ayesha was not menstruating then . Or do Arab girls menstruate at the age of 4-5 ?
Can someone who holds this opinion please provide historical precedent for any fascist movement that has ended except through total and violent military defeat?
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