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Illegal Detour: Thinking reasonably about immigration.
National Review ^ | 3/17/6 | Ramesh Ponnuru

Posted on 03/17/2006 2:45:24 PM PST by Crackingham

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To: dirtboy
"where is rhe real economic benefits"

In the succeding generations.

21 posted on 03/17/2006 3:47:41 PM PST by Ben Ficklin
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To: Ben Ficklin

succeeding


22 posted on 03/17/2006 3:49:59 PM PST by Ben Ficklin
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To: webboy45
We can control legal immigrants. We can not control illegal immigrants.

If you hadn't said it first, I would have written the exact same thing.

23 posted on 03/17/2006 3:54:21 PM PST by FoxInSocks
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To: Fee

Great analogy, however, the invaders didn't cut the ticket line, they snuck in the exit, leaving the ticketholders no seat.


24 posted on 03/17/2006 4:09:36 PM PST by aspen64 (Fight crime. Shoot back.)
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To: webboy45
We can not control illegal immigrants. That's the problem.

Oh, we can; we just don't have the balls to do what it takes.

"Diseases desperate grown/By desperate appliance are relieved, Or not at all."

25 posted on 03/17/2006 4:19:15 PM PST by William Terrell (Individuals can exist without government but government can't exist without individuals.)
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To: marron
You have to wonder, what is it they are afraid of?

I suspect, the hangman's noose.

Edmund Burke made a speech in the British Parliament during the American revolution. I'll post the whole passage and highlight the pertinent part of it.

"Permit me, Sir, to add another circumstance in our colonies, which contributes no mean part towards the growth and effect of this untractable spirit. I mean their education. In no country perhaps in the world is the law so general a study. The profession itself is numerous and powerful; and most provinces it takes the lead......But all who read, and most do read, endeavor to obtain some smattering of that science. I have been told by an eminent bookseller, that in that branch of his business, after tracts of popular devotion, were so many books as those on the law exported to the plantations. The colonies have fallen into the way of printing them for their own use. I hear they have sold nearly as many copies of Blackstone' Commentaries as in England. General Gage marks out this disposition very particularly in a letter on your table. (Gage discouraged measures of oppression of the colonies, "towards a country where every man studies law".).

"This study renders men acute, inquisitive, dexterious, prompt in attack, ready in defense, full of resources. In other countries, the people, more simple and of a less mercurial cast, judge of an ill principal in government only by an actual grievance; here they anticipate the evil, and judge of the pressure of the grievance by the badness of the principal. They augur misgovernment from a distance, and snuff the approach of tyranny in every tainted breeze."

I have wondered if this is a much unspoken aim of the professional politicians for the last two decades, to pack the electorate with Burke's non-augerers.

26 posted on 03/17/2006 4:28:33 PM PST by William Terrell (Individuals can exist without government but government can't exist without individuals.)
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To: marron

Good points.First,secure the borders.Then immigration reform.Have you read,"Immigration Out Of Control"/John Vinson?


27 posted on 03/17/2006 4:44:55 PM PST by Thombo2
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To: Thombo2

I'll look for it; thanks.


28 posted on 03/17/2006 4:48:59 PM PST by marron
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To: Crackingham

ESL Freshman Student Remedial Writing project?


29 posted on 03/17/2006 5:10:11 PM PST by ApplegateRanch (Islam: a Satanically Transmitted Disease, spread by unprotected intimate contact with the Koranus.)
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To: Crackingham

If you, sir, had lived in So Calif from 1964 to 1993 like I did, you would have seen a completely different picture.
I know it has gotten worse since then.

You cannot call those of who lived it 24/7/365 wrong or uninformed. You, sir, are looking at the whole problem with a large pair of rose-colored glasses. You, sir, need to get these illegal INTRUDERS back across the Mexican border.
You definately are not part of the solution, so you must be a large part of the problem.


30 posted on 03/17/2006 5:45:34 PM PST by ridesthemiles
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To: William Terrell
I have wondered if this is a much unspoken aim of the professional politicians for the last two decades, to pack the electorate with Burke's non-augerers.

Profound post bump!
31 posted on 03/17/2006 5:45:42 PM PST by starbase (Understanding Written Propaganda (click "starbase" to learn 22 manipulating tricks!!))
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To: Crackingham

This article makes a good point. By focusing on the illegality aspect we give the pols an easy out - they just figure out a way to make them legal. The problem is not the legality or illegality of immigration. The problem is the volume, quality and lack of diversity of the immigrant population.


32 posted on 03/17/2006 5:49:18 PM PST by TexasKamaAina
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To: trubluolyguy
supposed conservatives.

National Review for too long has been a hive for that type.

33 posted on 03/17/2006 6:25:23 PM PST by Pelham ("Borders? We don' need no stinking borders!")
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To: ridesthemiles

I still live in So Cal and yes, it has gotten worse.


34 posted on 03/17/2006 6:27:10 PM PST by Pelham ("Borders? We don' need no stinking borders!")
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To: Crackingham

This guy is an idiot.


35 posted on 03/17/2006 6:27:16 PM PST by dennisw (-Muslim's biggest enemy is the founder of Islam, Muhammad. Muslims are victims of this evil conman-)
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To: Crackingham

If I, a taxpaying citizen who tries to follow all the rules, have to sit here and watch illegal aliens cutting in line and receiving benefits I'm not entitled to, with no consequences, but instead being rewarded for their crimes, it makes m wonder why I should be a loyal citizen, why should I pay my taxes, do the right things? I wonder why our politicians don't see this situation as a recipe for anarchy? It is the natural progression, isn't it?


36 posted on 03/17/2006 6:29:26 PM PST by tinamina
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To: hosepipe
"How many crimes could 20 plus million illegals (maybe 30 million) do in this country?.. "

Well,

"..20 plus million...(maybe 30 million..." for starters.

37 posted on 03/17/2006 6:33:45 PM PST by norton
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To: Crackingham

There's problems in both legal and illegal immigration policies. We should have no illegal immigration, and we should have a 1/3 of the legal immigration we have now. Also we don't put good enough standards on assimilation, nor do we have legislation to prevent social burdens.

America is just too inclined to import poverty rather than self-sufficient individuals. When we first asked others to 'Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,' we we're speaking of individuals that wanted to be free and live with that responsibility.

Ultimately it comes down to not expanding the social programs just so someone can come here and exploit money produced by others. If you eliminated that, then I could easily loosen my views on numbers, pending they weren't criminals and they would learn the language and culture which made this country great.


38 posted on 03/17/2006 7:01:44 PM PST by Rick_Michael
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To: Crackingham

What we get in return for massive illegal immigration:

Closing hospitals
Increased health care costs.
Overcrowded prisons
Diseases we had all but eradicated
An underground economy
Increased crime
Identity Theft
Higher taxes
More police and schools
Increasing rate of unemployment of Americans
Lower standard of living for many Americans
Draining off of our social benefits
Gangs
Increased terrorism risks
Devaluation of our citizenship
Erosion of our national identity.
Lower tax revenues, since much of their work is off the books.
Smuggling
Increased drug flow
Human slavery and trafficking
Once nice neighborhoods now turned into barrios

To name just a few. Let me know if you can think of any more to add to the list.


39 posted on 03/17/2006 7:42:05 PM PST by TheLion
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To: Fee
Great points. We maintain and build higher the barriers to immigration in front of anyone and everyone on earth who cannot walk here from their home countries. That is why I oppose any immigration reform that gives mexico a massive preference, well a bigger preference than they already have anyway.
40 posted on 03/18/2006 8:51:45 AM PST by mthom
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