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1 posted on 03/16/2006 4:40:10 PM PST by SJackson
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To: SJackson
St. Patrick's Day should be about overcoming amnesia, not perpetuating it by getting drunk.

I'll drink to that! - Tom

2 posted on 03/16/2006 4:45:52 PM PST by Capt. Tom (Don't confuse the Bushies with the dumb Republicans - Capt. Tom)
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To: SJackson

Not all Irish are Catholic potato famine victims.

Earliest large Irish migration was 1718 with five shi[s from Londonderry to Boston. These were Protestants, most we now label scots-irish.

Many others came in the decades BEFORE 1840s, playing a huge role in the Revolution and settlements moving west.

Mountain men, Texas, etc.


3 posted on 03/16/2006 4:50:22 PM PST by truth_seeker
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To: SJackson; maica
Great Potato Famine of the 1800s

I call it the potato starvation since Ireland was a net exporter of food, grain and meat, the whole time. They just weren't allowed to eat any of the (mostly absentee) landlord's produce. They could only eat what they could grow on their ever less fertile soil. I did not even know this fact until I was about 50, though my father was a student of Irish history. He gave me a book to read, Paddy's Lament, written seemingly without bias, that I recommend to anyone who would like to learn more about this era.

4 posted on 03/16/2006 4:51:21 PM PST by Freee-dame
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To: SJackson

The potato blight, and the famine-disaster, was not caused by the English, but rather was a natural consequence of Catholic religious practices, high birth rates, and dependence on a single crop in high densities to support the high population increase. The Brits did more to aleviate the famine than they had ever done before, importing and distributing free maize (indian corn) in an effort to help.

It was beyond their powers to do more. The Irish, once again, left their island in large numbers to the great benefit of the world.

The Irish had left before, to transmit ancient culture through the Irish Monastaries. The Irish emigrants had given us President Jackson before the Famine, and Presidents Kennedy and Reagan afterwards.


5 posted on 03/16/2006 4:52:12 PM PST by Donald Meaker (You don't drive a car looking through the rear view mirror, but you do practice politics that way.)
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How about Van Morrison and James Joyce?


7 posted on 03/16/2006 4:58:23 PM PST by a_different_conservative
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To: SJackson
St. Patrick's day is just a stop along the way of the modern American tradition of celebration. Ok, we start with New Year's Eve, have a party, and look down the road of an endless winter. Along comes Mardi Gras and Lent and on Shrove Tuesday we indulge on Polish Paczki,as is the custom in the Midwest.
Then about half way through Lent, in mid March, we want to have some more fun, ergo, St Patrick's day. This year we can have all the fun we want, if you are Catholic, because we can eat Corned Beef on Friday during Lent because the Arch Bishop in my Diocese said it was OK.
Next stop on the Fun Meter is "Cinco de Mayo". Let's just Celebrate having Fun.
10 posted on 03/16/2006 5:16:31 PM PST by joem15
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To: SJackson

This Tom Hayden is the same one who ran Students for a Democratic Society. Not exactly an authority.


11 posted on 03/16/2006 5:16:39 PM PST by Dumb_Ox (http://kevinjjones.blogspot.com)
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To: SJackson

Social activist Tom Hayden?? I think "radical socialist" would be a more accurate description.

That being said, I will still have a drink or two to celebrate the Celtic soul that flourishes under my skin.

I will listen to the Bothy Band shred the wind with Rip the Calico and The Holy Land. I'll have another bit of Bushmills and relish the contrapuntal melodies of Planxty playing The Good Ship Kangaroo and The Blacksmith's Daughter.

If, by that time, I have yet to shed a single tear of melancholy remembrance, I'll sip a little more of the morning dew and listen to Paul Brady sing The Lakes of Pontchartrain.

I will not be drunk but I will have opened a door to see more clearly the joy and the struggle of those who lost all hope in their native land and came to America to renew their spirit and regain love's hold on their heart and soul.


12 posted on 03/16/2006 5:28:09 PM PST by concentric circles
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To: nutmeg

read later


14 posted on 03/16/2006 5:36:56 PM PST by nutmeg (NEVER trust democRATs with our national security)
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To: SJackson
If Hayden had his way it would be a celebration of the exploitation of the masses by the ruthless capitalist class, yada yada... The Potato Famine was nothing of the sort. It was a horrible combination of circumstances that is perfectly described by "perfect storm."

It was a monoculture crop blight that left an overpopulated island vulnerable to mass starvation, combined with a rise in food prices on the Continent due to crop failures elsewhere, intense political hostility (politics is involved in nearly all famines), poor communications, and the fact that no government had, up to that point, paid any attention to such 20th-century niceties such as disaster relief.

There are popular stories of crops being exported while Irish starved, and so they were, primarily to purchase food relief. The efforts to construct relief programs out of nothing are heartbreaking to read, with all the classic mistakes made by amateurs where even professionals would have failed.

One source for information on this that is somewhat less politically tainted than the ones Hayden recommends is The Great Hunger, Cecil Woodham-Smith's chronicle of the disaster. It isn't sometimes immediately apparent that these events took place in one of the most revolutionary periods in European history, which certainly helps to account for the political confusion - add that to centuries of animosity between English and Irish and the magnitude of the thing begins to make a little more sense.

16 posted on 03/16/2006 5:43:44 PM PST by Billthedrill
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To: SJackson; Happygal; Colosis; Black Line; Cucullain; SomeguyfromIreland; Youngblood; Fergal; Cian; ..

Ireland ping.


18 posted on 03/16/2006 6:08:09 PM PST by Irish_Thatcherite (~~~A vote for Bertie Ahern is a vote for Gerry Adams!~~~)
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To: SJackson

If you want to understand the Irish in America and America from its foundings, you have to study Scottish and Irish history in Britain. Much of the platforms written against tyranny in our bill of rights and constitution are a result of Scots-Irish Presbyterianism. They came to America and brought with them the Westminster confession of faith. Some came during the potato famine, some came as slaves during the periods of Roman Catholic persecution of the "protestants". Yes, Virginia, White Irish Protestants were slaves in America too; but, we don't much hear about that cause it isn't pc to be a white slave evidently.

I am Scots-Irish and German. The Irish didn't give us St. Patrick's day. Rome did. The guy from what I know of the tale wasn't even Irish. He was a foreigner if he existed at all and was attempting to convert from the culdees and others. Culdees, as it happens, were Christians that had long since beat Rome to Britain and Christianized it. Irish and Scottish History are largely characterized by a war of faiths - Christian verses Roman, A war over governance - Self verses foreign. I would say British rather than foriegn; but, The french were not Brits any more than the Scandanavians or Italians were. And when freedom was won, finally, one would be hard pressed to Call William Wallace or Robert Bruce either foriegn or Catholic.

As A person who shares Irish and Scottish blood, a day awash in green beer might be the way my people tried to forget what they'd been through under domination and tyranny both civil and religious; but, I'd rather they be thought of for their stand for freedom against tyranny, civil and religious. Much of our foundation in America is owed to the writings of the likes of John Knox. When do you suppose we'll get a day commemorating him?


23 posted on 03/16/2006 6:35:46 PM PST by Havoc (Evolutionists and Democrats: "We aren't getting our message out" (coincidence?))
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To: SJackson
And yet, as a rule, those of us who grew up in Irish-American families learned little (if anything) about our history of oppression and persecution.

I like to believe that maybe we were just mature enough not to identify ourselves based on some notion of "victimhood" based on something that happened to our ancestors several generations ago.

Anyone who uses the term "our history of oppression and persecution" in reference to his racial or ethnic background is a professional malcontent, in my opinion.

26 posted on 03/16/2006 6:59:12 PM PST by Alberta's Child
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To: SJackson

"Sligo was one of the principal ports of emigration on the western seaboard and it became known as the embarkation point for the 'COFFIN SHIPS', as the poorest of the poor walked here and sailed from this town. Many thousands of others walked from Sligo to Dublin, the main departure port along the Quays of the River Liffey."

http://www.moytura.com/sligo1.htm


27 posted on 03/16/2006 7:03:30 PM PST by Dr. Scarpetta (There's always a reason to choose life.)
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To: SJackson

Book Review:
How the Irish Saved Civilization
http://www.allaboutirish.com/library/bookrev/rev-saved.shtm


36 posted on 03/16/2006 7:32:33 PM PST by Liberty Valance (Keep a simple manner for a happy life :o)
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To: SJackson
"The Boxer" (starring Daniel Day-Lewis as an IRA member coming out of prison after 20 years and rehabilitating himself by running a boxing center for youth in Dublin) is a very good film.

Day-Lewis' other film should be titled "In the Name of the F***ing Father" for all the profanity that it spews out.

37 posted on 03/17/2006 1:33:11 AM PST by Ciexyz (Let us always remember, the Lord is in control.)
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To: SJackson

unfortunately the most anit-american country in europe is Ireland, not France


49 posted on 03/19/2006 2:27:56 PM PST by georgia2006
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To: SJackson

Oh, brother. Is EVERYBODY a victim?


84 posted on 03/19/2006 3:12:31 PM PST by Texas Eagle (If it wasn't for double-standards, Liberals would have no standards at all.)
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To: SJackson

Since we're talking St. Patrick's Day...

I arise today
Through a mighty strength, the invocation of the Trinity,
... Through confession of the Oneness
Of the Creator of creation.

I arise today
Through the strength of Christ's birth and His baptism,
Through the strength of His crucifixion and His burial,
Through the strength of His resurrection and His ascension,
Through the strength of His descent for the judgment of doom.

I arise today
Through the strength of the love of cherubim,
In obedience of angels,
... In innocence of virgins,
In deeds of righteous men.

I arise today
Through the strength of heaven;
Light of the sun,
Splendor of fire,
Speed of lightning,
Swiftness of the wind,
Depth of the sea,
Stability of the earth,
Firmness of the rock.

I arise today
Through God's strength to pilot me;
... God's hosts to save me
From snares of the devil,
From temptations of vices...

I summon today all these powers between me and evil,
Against every cruel merciless power that opposes my body and soul,
Against incantations of false prophets,
Against black laws of pagandom,
Against false laws of heretics,
Against craft of idolatry,
Against spells of women and smiths and wizards,
Against every knowledge that corrupts man's body and soul.
Christ shield me today.

Christ with me, Christ before me, Christ behind me,
Christ in me, Christ beneath me, Christ above me,
Christ on my right, Christ on my left,
Christ when I lie down, Christ when I sit down,
Christ in the heart of every man who thinks of me,
Christ in the mouth of every man who speaks of me,
Christ in the eye that sees me,
Christ in the ear that hears me.
...

St. Patrick (ca. 377)


97 posted on 03/19/2006 3:28:31 PM PST by Mrs. Don-o (Rum, Romanism,. and Rebellion)
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To: SJackson

Little-known Irish historical note: numerous members of the Irish St. Patrick's Battalion in our army deserted to the enemy in the War with Mexico in 1848. They sided with the Catholics and are still regarded as heros by Mexico. In the San Angel suburb of Mexico City (a town during the war), there is a large plaque in the main square with their names inscribed along with a salute to "their noble actions." The US Army saw them as traitors and they were tried as such and hanged.


107 posted on 03/19/2006 4:01:21 PM PST by Paulus Invictus
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