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Evidence for Universe Expansion Found
Yahoo (AP) ^ | 3/16/2006 | MATT CRENSON

Posted on 03/16/2006 11:31:54 AM PST by The_Victor

Physicists announced Thursday that they now have the smoking gun that shows the universe went through extremely rapid expansion in the moments after the big bang, growing from the size of a marble to a volume larger than all of observable space in less than a trillion-trillionth of a second.

The discovery — which involves an analysis of variations in the brightness of microwave radiation — is the first direct evidence to support the two-decade-old theory that the universe went through what is called inflation.

It also helps explain how matter eventually clumped together into planets, stars and galaxies in a universe that began as a remarkably smooth, superhot soup.

"It's giving us our first clues about how inflation took place," said Michael Turner, assistant director for mathematics and physical sciences at the National Science Foundation. "This is absolutely amazing."

Brian Greene, a Columbia University physicist, said: "The observations are spectacular and the conclusions are stunning."

Researchers found the evidence for inflation by looking at a faint glow that permeates the universe. That glow, known as the cosmic microwave background, was produced when the universe was about 300,000 years old — long after inflation had done its work.

But just as a fossil tells a paleontologist about long-extinct life, the pattern of light in the cosmic microwave background offers clues about what came before it. Of specific interest to physicists are subtle brightness variations that give images of the microwave background a lumpy appearance.

Physicists presented new measurements of those variations during a news conference at Princeton University. The measurements were made by a spaceborne instrument called the Wilkinson Microwave Anistropy Probe, or WMAP, launched by NASA in 2001.

Earlier studies of WMAP data have determined that the universe is 13.7 billion years old, give or take a few hundred thousand years. WMAP also measured variations in the cosmic microwave background so huge that they stretch across the entire sky. Those earlier observations are strong indicators of inflation, but no smoking gun, said Turner, who was not involved in the research.

The new analysis looked at variations in the microwave background over smaller patches of sky — only billions of light-years across, instead of hundreds of billions.

Without inflation, the brightness variations over small patches of the sky would be the same as those observed over larger areas of the heavens. But the researchers found considerable differences in the brightness variations.

"The data favors inflation," said Charles Bennett, a Johns Hopkins University physicist who announced the discovery. He was joined by two Princeton colleagues, Lyman Page and David Spergel, who also contributed to the research.

Bennett added: "It amazes me that we can say anything at all about what transpired in the first trillionth of a second of the universe."

The physicists said small lumps in the microwave background began during inflation. Those lumps eventually coalesced into stars, galaxies and planets.

The measurements are scheduled to be published in a future issue of the Astrophysical Journal.


TOPICS: Miscellaneous; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: cosmology; crevolist; expansion
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To: Southack

What you don't seem to be able to comprehend is that the physics of a superhot universe would be quite different in many ways from the physics of a cold universe (the modern universe). While one can deduce circumstances in a superhot universe from observations in our cold universe (because the physics ultimately depend on the same 'laws'), you cannot entirely recreate them. That is because any simulation of the superhot universe will necessarily take place within a cold universe.

But, I understand that you reject the logical rules of rational deduction. That is the very crux of what being an obscurantist (i.e., you) is all about. Nonetheless, I may attempt to explain the relevant particle physics (and the problems with the framing of your question) tonight, when I might have the time. Right now, I have to go.


681 posted on 03/20/2006 8:08:00 AM PST by AntiGuv (™)
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To: Southack

"What force is doing the compressing then, and why would that force change merely because extra space suddenly existed...if, as you claim, you aren't ascribing a Force to space?"

What I was implying was this: And hopefully I can put it into words properly they way I see it.

Matter needs space to exist in. If all of space (the entire universe) is size x, than all matter contained within must fit in volume x. As the universe expanded,, to simplify as much as possible.. it made more room for the matter to spread out, and so it did to equalize the pressure. Nobody was there when this happened so nobody can possibly know, but all evidence found so far suggests that the universe was much smaller, hotter, and danser in the distant past. The logical conclusion for how it gotlike it is today is expansion, spreading out of matter, and subsequent cooling (spreading of energy density).


682 posted on 03/20/2006 8:10:07 AM PST by Bones75
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To: AntiGuv
"What you don't seem to be able to comprehend is that the physics of a superhot universe would be quite different in many ways from the physics of a cold universe (the modern universe). While one can deduce circumstances in a superhot universe from observations in our cold universe (because the physics ultimately depend on the same 'laws'), you cannot entirely recreate them."

Then just admit that "we've never seen matter cool through particle transformation" rather than dance around the key point.

Inflation Cosmology and the Big Bang require a unique, never-seen method of cooling (among other never-seen things e.g. unified field rather than the 4 Forces, unified field "overwhelming" Relativity, etc.).

683 posted on 03/20/2006 8:16:21 AM PST by Southack (Media Bias means that Castro won't be punished for Cuban war crimes against Black Angolans in Africa)
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To: AntiGuv
Nice summary of the expansion model. (Do remember, though, that much of what occurred in this period, especially prior to the inflationary epoch, is indeed controversial and largely speculative. To any lurkers, though, this, does not mean the entire theory is speculative, only that our certainty diminishes as the moment of the Beginning is approached.)
684 posted on 03/20/2006 8:18:16 AM PST by Quark2005 (Confidence follows from consilience.)
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To: MineralMan
You Wrote: "I don't think this is going to get across. The concepts are just a little too difficult for most folks to grasp, I'm afraid.

The concept of space isn't something that most people understand, and it's hard to explain, since it requires stepping away from observable reality."

Is this what you scientific guys call thinking outside the box?

685 posted on 03/20/2006 8:19:11 AM PST by An Old Man (USMC 1956 1960)
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To: Southack
Then just admit that "we've never seen matter cool through particle transformation" rather than dance around the key point.

That would be a ridiculous admission, because it would be a lie, that only someone deeply ignorant would admit (or ask for an admission of).

Here is a classic paper from Enrico Fermi describing the cooling of matter via particle transformation:

The Ionization Loss of Energy in Gases and in Condensed Materials

686 posted on 03/20/2006 8:22:07 AM PST by AntiGuv (™)
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To: An Old Man

Nah, not really. It's the rules of observation. You cannot see what is outside your field of vision. Our observations are limited to our universe.


687 posted on 03/20/2006 8:22:26 AM PST by MineralMan (godless atheist)
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To: Southack

And now I really have to go! Anything further will just have to wait.


688 posted on 03/20/2006 8:24:35 AM PST by AntiGuv (™)
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To: Doctor Stochastic; RadioAstronomer
Can pant suits emit Hawking radiaton?

They must emit SOME sort of radiation, since SOMETHING makes me bleed from the eyes while looking in that direction.

However, I tend to doubt that it's Hawking radiation. If there was actually a black hole involved, you have to know that a number of things would have irreversibly disappeared into it - like the Rose Law Firm records, Vince Foster's body, etc...
689 posted on 03/20/2006 8:30:23 AM PST by beezdotcom
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To: PatrickHenry; AntiGuv
Actually I like the earlier oscillating universe scenario, before branes got dreamed up.

I'm still holding out for the Big Rip cataclysm theory (though I don't hear much about this one any more...)

690 posted on 03/20/2006 8:34:56 AM PST by Quark2005 (Confidence follows from consilience.)
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To: AntiGuv
"Here is a classic paper from Enrico Fermi describing the cooling of matter via particle transformation: The Ionization Loss of Energy in Gases and in Condensed Materials"

No, Fermi is talking about transiting particles (e.g. electrons) losing their own energy *to* the medium being transited (e.g. ionized gases).

691 posted on 03/20/2006 8:37:35 AM PST by Southack (Media Bias means that Castro won't be punished for Cuban war crimes against Black Angolans in Africa)
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To: Southack

Yeah, I know, but you forgot to include the caveat in that post, and I couldn't resist giving you a taste of your own medicine. :)

Regardless, I won't have time to get back to this in a serious way until tonight. I shouldn't even be distracted here now.


692 posted on 03/20/2006 8:46:37 AM PST by AntiGuv (™)
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To: AntiGuv
"Yeah, I know, but you forgot to include the caveat in that post, and I couldn't resist giving you a taste of your own medicine. :) "

OK, I had that coming!

693 posted on 03/20/2006 8:48:19 AM PST by Southack (Media Bias means that Castro won't be punished for Cuban war crimes against Black Angolans in Africa)
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To: AntiGuv

Very good. And over my head. But that's OK. At least I know a bit more of what it is that I don't know.


694 posted on 03/20/2006 8:54:19 AM PST by narby (Evolution is the new "third rail" in American politics)
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To: AntiGuv

695 posted on 03/20/2006 9:04:26 AM PST by RightWingAtheist ( EveningStar is back; new tagline pending)
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To: Southack

OK, to be done with this, here's the shortest answer I'd give to your questions:

No, we have not observed the mechanism by which the pre-inflation universe 'cooled'; in fact, with curvatures of spacetime as extreme as they would've been in the Planck Era, we cannot even mathematically define the total energy of the system, and conservation of energy becomes inoperable. Indeed, there are a number of problems with the way we've been describing and defining pre-inflation conditions (including the way we've used the terms "matter" and "cooling"), and I am complicit in that, but I'll just let that go as you do not seem to be the type of person who cares anyhow. LOL

In any case, we cannot recreate these conditions unless we could curve spacetime as extremely as it would've been before inflation, and we cannot do that at this juncture. From a mathematical standpoint, we will not have complete answers to these questions until we have a quantum theory of gravitation (i.e., a Theory of Everything), which we do not have, and it was my error to imply otherwise. And yes, I was dancing away from this point, not so much consciously, but because I'm as unsatisfied as anyone at not having all the answers. :)

So, to reiterate (and to state the rather obvious), you are correct to say that Inflation Theory requires the mathematical deduction of unique, never-seen conditions. I shouldn't have resisted this characterization to begin with.


696 posted on 03/20/2006 1:43:13 PM PST by AntiGuv (™)
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To: AntiGuv
"So, to reiterate (and to state the rather obvious), you are correct to say that Inflation Theory requires the mathematical deduction of unique, never-seen conditions. I shouldn't have resisted this characterization to begin with."

Wow. I'm humbled.

Thanks.

697 posted on 03/20/2006 1:48:53 PM PST by Southack (Media Bias means that Castro won't be punished for Cuban war crimes against Black Angolans in Africa)
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To: Southack
FWIW, this article discusses in great detail the boundaries of our knowledge regarding the pre-inflation universe: Symmetry Principles of the Unified Field Theory. What has been deduced; why it's been deduced; what remains unknown; and what has been conjectured in that regard. Your specific questions home in on outstanding questions regarding quantum fluctuations and thermal dynamics in the pre-inflation universe. They are as of yet inadequately understood, to say the least, and it's not really clear to me why I was evasive on this point earlier. Very unlike me!
698 posted on 03/20/2006 1:53:41 PM PST by AntiGuv (™)
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Patience


699 posted on 03/20/2006 2:01:26 PM PST by dread78645 (Sorry Mr. Franklin, We couldn't keep it.)
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To: PatrickHenry

Prime


700 posted on 03/20/2006 2:01:35 PM PST by dread78645 (Sorry Mr. Franklin, We couldn't keep it.)
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