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Fossil find prompts rethink on dinosaur feathers
Yahoo (Reuters) ^ | 3/15/2006 | Patricia Reaney

Posted on 03/15/2006 12:23:34 PM PST by The_Victor

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To: spinestein
Another possibility is that the feathers may have been removed before the corpse was fossilized. My folks have chickens on their farm and some of them are plucked half bald by other chickens. I've also seen a few chickens after the coyotes have ripped them up and there is a nice skeleton left over with most of the meat, skin and feathers gone.

From the article:

The new fossil is nearly complete, apart from a missing part of its long tail, and shows soft tissue and an imprint of the skin but no feathers.
Removed feathers would have left a noticeable "chicken skin" imprint, I think. Still, too many viable scenarios to draw any detailed conclusions just yet.
41 posted on 03/15/2006 1:17:59 PM PST by The_Victor (If all I want is a warm feeling, I should just wet my pants.)
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To: longshadow
My memory is failing me. Sorry.

Based solely on the footprints they determined that the dinosaur was a meat-eater.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1504547/posts

42 posted on 03/15/2006 1:21:56 PM PST by ClearCase_guy (Never question Bruce Dickinson!)
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To: The_Victor

The answer is simple - it got plucked before it died. Maybe Space Aliens, maybe Noah was hungry. The possibilities are endless.


43 posted on 03/15/2006 1:22:44 PM PST by furball4paws (Awful Offal)
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To: MineralMan
Yup, and there are several mammals that lay eggs, too.

Maybe an even better point. Those monotremes are in the mammal group but their line branched off on its own way back there.

What we're doing is learning more about the early history of the coelurosaur taxon. More data points should help to tell a more coherent story.

44 posted on 03/15/2006 1:24:58 PM PST by VadeRetro (I have the updated "Your brain on creationism" on my homepage.)
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To: longshadow; PatrickHenry
"Now we have a little dinosaur that belongs to coelurosaurs that does not show feathers. This is a problem."

There are no problems in science, only opportunities.

I think this is fascinating. If this isn't some aberration, it means that there were closely related species, some with feathers, some without.

One possibility is that feathers evolved more than once. I think this is highly likely. This means it should be possible to find different genes for feathers from widely divergent modern bird species. Unless of course, the line went extinct.

45 posted on 03/15/2006 1:26:59 PM PST by <1/1,000,000th%
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To: Coyoteman
It is amazing the glee in some posters' eyes when scientists admit either that they made a mistake or have learned something they didn't know.

Every dispute, unexpected result, and unanswered question is proof that science is a house of cards about to fall. Except it never does, of course.

Reality does not impinge upon people who pin their hopes on such phantoms.

46 posted on 03/15/2006 1:27:50 PM PST by VadeRetro (I have the updated "Your brain on creationism" on my homepage.)
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To: The_Victor
And, of course, there are evolutionary cul-de-sacs too.

Something a lot of people fail to take into account. Most fossil finds are "branches" off any main line connecting one species to another. Extinction plays a huge role in evolution & the formation of the fossil record that we observe.

47 posted on 03/15/2006 1:28:54 PM PST by Quark2005 (Confidence follows from consilience.)
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To: The_Victor

Yep, I still can't figure out why humans don't have nice full coats of body hair. After all, aren't we the cream of the evolutionary crop? Why evolve to have to wear clothes?


48 posted on 03/15/2006 1:29:18 PM PST by vpintheak (Liberal = The antithesis of Freedom and Patriotism)
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To: orionblamblam

so when new evidence tells you the overall theory may be
incorrect, you just make the theory more complicated to explain all the variations? Kinda like Ptolemy, no?


49 posted on 03/15/2006 1:29:22 PM PST by Getready
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To: Ol' Dan Tucker

50 posted on 03/15/2006 1:30:58 PM PST by yankeedame ("Oh, I can take it but I'd much rather dish it out.")
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To: <1/1,000,000th%
One possibility is that feathers evolved more than once. I think this is highly likely.

Just compare ichthyosaurs to modern whales. Many similar traits in distinctly different lineage of species.

51 posted on 03/15/2006 1:31:02 PM PST by The_Victor (If all I want is a warm feeling, I should just wet my pants.)
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To: MineralMan
The American Museum of Natural History has an entire room of huge, bizarre mammal fossils.

The Smithsonian has a bunch too. I especially like the glyptodons, huge armadillos that may have been hunted to extinction because people used their shells as **shelters**.

52 posted on 03/15/2006 1:32:12 PM PST by Virginia-American
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To: vpintheak
"Yep, I still can't figure out why humans don't have nice full coats of body hair. " Well, apparently some humans have a nice full coat of body hair:


53 posted on 03/15/2006 1:32:18 PM PST by MineralMan (godless atheist)
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To: MineralMan
Well, apparently some humans have a nice full coat of body hair

And if you want to know why we seem to be evolving away from that (ew!), just ask yourself if you would want to mate with anything with that much hair.

*shudder*

54 posted on 03/15/2006 1:34:20 PM PST by The_Victor (If all I want is a warm feeling, I should just wet my pants.)
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To: VadeRetro

The monotremes are an excellent thing to mention in discussions of mammalian evolution. Australia got isolated at the perfect time to evolve a whole series of wierd mammals, unlike those anywhere else on the planet.

Marsupials, monotremes, and others. The Opossum is about the only marsupial anywhere outside of Australia. No monotremes exist except in Australia and the surrounding islands.

It's a perfect study of mammalian evolution. Every type of animal, from big herbivores to carnivorous predators evolved there, and in a unique way. The isolation is what did it.

It's inexplicable, except through evolution.


55 posted on 03/15/2006 1:35:27 PM PST by MineralMan (godless atheist)
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To: The_Victor

So far, and this is documented, no feathers have been found on any dino fossils, regardless of the claims. They have all been proven to be false and not feathers. However, evos continue to chant the feathers on dinos mantra. They are like Dems, they will believe what they want and to hell with the trurh, the feather hoax continues. I am NOT a christian, NOT a creationist or IDer, just a guy who wants the truth to be told. If evolution is real, then their is no need for fakes and false claims, although they continue unabated and with no shame from the evos!


56 posted on 03/15/2006 1:35:36 PM PST by calex59 (seeing the light shouldn't make you go blind and, BTW, Stå sammen med danskerne !)
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To: vpintheak

I meant to include you in the To: list on post 54


57 posted on 03/15/2006 1:36:29 PM PST by The_Victor (If all I want is a warm feeling, I should just wet my pants.)
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To: Virginia-American

Yes, the glyptodons. What an interesting group of mammals!


58 posted on 03/15/2006 1:36:39 PM PST by MineralMan (godless atheist)
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To: ClearCase_guy
Based solely on the footprints they determined that the dinosaur was a meat-eater.

Because all dinosaurs found with that foot-shape previously (and there have been many of them) have been determined to be meat-eaters by other evidence, such as jaw-construction and body designed for predation.

It isn't definite, but the inference is strong.

59 posted on 03/15/2006 1:38:21 PM PST by Thatcherite (I'm Pat Henry, I'm the real Pat Henry, All the other Pat Henry's are just imitators...)
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To: calex59
no feathers have been found on any dino fossils, regardless of the claims.

So, the feather imprints on the archeopteryx fossils aren't feathers?

60 posted on 03/15/2006 1:38:29 PM PST by The_Victor (If all I want is a warm feeling, I should just wet my pants.)
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