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Can a devout Muslim be an American patriot and a loyal citizen?
email ^ | March 2006 | email

Posted on 03/14/2006 5:58:55 PM PST by Louisiana

Can a devout Muslim be an American patriot and a loyal citizen?

Consider this:

Theologically, no. Because his allegiance is to Allah, the moon god of Arabia.

Scripturally, no. Because his allegiance is to the five pillars of Islam and the Quran (Koran).

Geographically, no. Because his allegiance is to Mecca, to which he turns in prayer five times a day.

Socially, no. Because his allegiance to Islam forbids him to make friends with Christians or Jews.

Politically, no. Because he must submit to the mullah (spiritual leaders), who teach annihilation of Israel and destruction of America, the great Satan.

Domestically, no, because he is instructed to marry four women and beat and scourge his wife when she disobeys him (Quran 4:34).

Religiously, no. Because no other religion is accepted by his Allah except Islam (Quran, 2:256)

Intellectually, no, because he cannot accept the American Constitution since it is based on Biblical principles and he believes the Bible to be corrupt.

Philosophically, no, because Islam, Muhammad, and the Quran do not allow freedom of religion and expression. Democracy and Islam cannot co - exist. Every Muslim government is either dictatorial or autocratic.

Spiritually, no, because when we declare "one nation under God," the Christian's God is loving and kind, while Allah is NEVER referred to as our heavenly father, nor is he ever called love in the Quran's 99 excellent names.

Therefore after much study and deliberation....perhaps we should be very suspicious of ALL MUSLIMS in this country. They obviously cannot be both good Muslims and good Americans. Call it what you wish...it's still the truth. If you find yourself intellectually in agreement with the above, perhaps you will share this with your friends. The more who understand this, the better it will be for our country.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: islam; musilim; muslims; patriotism
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To: FBD

These guys are always writing off the other guys ~ that gives them an excuse to kill them. Frankly, I never trust any Moslem that tells me there are only two kinds of Islam.


201 posted on 03/15/2006 6:44:39 AM PST by muawiyah (-)
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To: MrLee

It's your back, but their Koran says they are to kill you when the time comes. The Bible doesn'y say that!

God in the Old Testament was a pretty rough character.


202 posted on 03/15/2006 6:58:30 AM PST by DOGEY
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To: pissant

"A communist is like a crocodile: when it opens its mouth you cannot tell whether it is trying to smile or preparing to eat you up."
- Winston Churchill

Just substitute Muslim for Communist, and you get the idea.


203 posted on 03/15/2006 7:09:02 AM PST by Sometimes A River (http://www.theonion.com/content/node/46031)
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To: Question_Assumptions
>"Yes, you can criticize Muhammed for not setting the bar higher and I'd probably agree with you."<

Perhaps you might want to question the assumptions you have about the founder of Islam?
It is documented that Muhammed did more then just encourage lies...he killed and/or condoned the killing, of many helpless innocent people, including a pregnant woman:

Sunan Abu-Dawud Book 38, Number 4348
http://www.faithfreedom.org/Articles/sina/WhyILeftIslamp2.htm

How low of a bar are you willing to accept, for the founder of this religion?



granted, I'm only relying on the expert testimony of Dr. Sina, who claims:
http://www.faithfreedom.org/Articles/sina/WhyILeftIslamp3.htm

"Thus we have two Islams. One that makes strives to attribute mystical significance and otherworldly meanings to the inane teachings of the Quran, as is professed by Sufis, and the other that rejects any interpretation of these verses beyond their literal meanings, as is practiced by the majority of Muslims with their hub in Saudi Arabia among the Wahhabis. And of course there is a myriad of sects that go in between these two extremes, each interpreting the Quran according to their own whims and caprices, each calling others mortad or heretics and constantly making war among themselves to impose their own "right" version of the pure Islam on others.

However, the real Islam is not what its philosophers and mystics have inferred but what is in the Quran and that is the Islam of the fundamentalist and the terrorist. The real Islam is the Islam that abuses women, that allows men to beat their wives, that imposes penalty tax on the religious minorities, that wants to dominate the world by subduing all the non-Muslims, that calls for Jihad and killing the non-believers until Islam becomes the only dominant religion of the World.

My rejection of Islam is not based on the bad deeds of the Muslims but on the bad teachings of its holy book and on the bad deeds of its founder."- Dr Sina

http://www.faithfreedom.org/Articles/sina/WhyILeftIslamp3.htm



204 posted on 03/15/2006 7:12:24 AM PST by FBD (surf's up!)
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To: ClearBlueSky
Of course, NO priest or Pope ever threatened to do any such thing, nor did they call for obedience to the Catholic religion to supersede the laws of this country. Priests didn't preach against the laws of this country..

"Los Angeles Cardinal Roger M. Mahony earlier this month said he would instruct his priests to defy a federal proposal to require churches to check the legal status of parishioners before helping them."

http://www.thedesertsun.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060312/LIFESTYLES06/603120319

205 posted on 03/15/2006 7:19:45 AM PST by Michamilton
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To: FBD
Scary stuff...

Of course the "compassionate conservatives" (including the President and General Abizaid himself) might merely consider the truth of the book "Arab-Muslim" bashing.

206 posted on 03/15/2006 7:24:38 AM PST by F16Fighter
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To: muawiyah
>"These guys are always writing off the other guys ~ that gives them an excuse to kill them."<

- Can you show me a quote where Dr. Sina has done anything other then try to get his fellow Muslims to leave their archaic belief system for their own sake?

Dr Sina hasn't killed or threatened anyone, but he has been threatened for leaving Islam, and for speaking out against it.

Show me where, specifically, that Sina and company has done what you say:
>"that gives them an excuse to kill them."<

>"Frankly, I never trust any Moslem that tells me there are only two kinds of Islam."<

- I don't think you read his statement very well. His reference to the two kinds of Islam, what is in the Koran, as the real Islam, and the source of radical Muslim violence. The other kind was: "... One that makes strives to attribute mystical significance and otherworldly meanings to the inane teachings of the Quran..."

Read it again:
"Thus we have two Islams. One that makes strives to attribute mystical significance and otherworldly meanings to the inane teachings of the Quran, as is professed by Sufis, and the other that rejects any interpretation of these verses beyond their literal meanings, as is practiced by the majority of Muslims with their hub in Saudi Arabia among the Wahhabis.
And of course there is a myriad of sects that go in between these two extremes, each interpreting the Quran according to their own whims and caprices..."

Please consider Sina's following statement, and tell me where he is wrong:


"My rejection of Islam is not based on the bad deeds of the Muslims but on the bad teachings of its holy book and on the bad deeds of its founder. Many cruelties and heinous acts of violence, perpetrated by Muslims throughout the centuries were inspired by the Quran and the Sunnah (the examples of the prophet). That is why I condemn ISLAM for the bad things that Muslims do. Any effort to humanize Islam is a waste of time. The obstacle to any reform is Quran." -Dr Sina



"Why I left Islam", by Dr. Sina

.

207 posted on 03/15/2006 7:40:30 AM PST by FBD (surf's up!)
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To: F16Fighter

Yes, ere we have actual ex-Muslims (of all races) telling their stories about why they left the Islamic faith, and we are told we are bigots, and or racists for quoting their harrowing stories verbatim.


208 posted on 03/15/2006 7:45:28 AM PST by FBD (surf's up!)
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To: FBD
Look, I know the trick ~ Dr. Sana knows the trick ~ apparantly you don't know the trick.

In the framework of Islam all you have to do is make the argument that another Moslem is either a hypocrite or an apostate, and that's all the justification you need to kill him.

Dr. Sana is using the "hypocrite" trick. Those who understand it know that he's simply encouraging mayhem.

Not terribly Christian of him, but then again, neither are the Moslems, eh?!

209 posted on 03/15/2006 7:45:55 AM PST by muawiyah (-)
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To: Question_Assumptions
.>"Muslims believe that what he said while being spoken to by the angel/Allah is a revelation from Allah. That's not everything he said. The quote you cite is from a Hadith, not the Koran. While Osama bin Laden would like all Muslims to treat all of those works as having equal authority, only the Koran really has the authority, according to Muslims,..."<,

-Please consider Sina's following statement about Islam, and the Koran, and tell me where he is off base:




Why I left Islam", by Dr. Sina
"My rejection of Islam is not based on the bad deeds of the Muslims but on the bad teachings of its holy book and on the bad deeds of its founder. Many cruelties and heinous acts of violence, perpetrated by Muslims throughout the centuries were inspired by the Quran and the Sunnah (the examples of the prophet). That is why I condemn ISLAM for the bad things that Muslims do. Any effort to humanize Islam is a waste of time. The obstacle to any reform is the Quran." -Dr Sina






210 posted on 03/15/2006 7:54:41 AM PST by FBD (surf's up!)
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To: muawiyah

>"Look, I know the trick ~ Dr. Sana knows the trick ~ apparantly you don't know the trick."<

-It's Dr. Sina, not Sana...

>"In the framework of Islam all you have to do is make the argument that another Moslem is either a hypocrite or an apostate, and that's all the justification you need to kill him.
Dr. Sana is using the "hypocrite" trick. Those who understand it know that he's simply encouraging mayhem."<

-I'm sorry, but that statement doesn't make any sense at all.

>"Not terribly Christian of him, but then again, neither are the Moslems, eh?!"<

-From what I'm able to gather, Dr. Sina doesn't prescribe to any religion at all now, but I'm not 100% positive about that.



211 posted on 03/15/2006 8:02:38 AM PST by FBD (surf's up!)
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To: Question_Assumptions
Circumcision is not mentioned in the Koran. Neither are headscarves.

and they are both in the Bible..

212 posted on 03/15/2006 8:03:43 AM PST by Michamilton
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To: philetus

Thank you. This is what I was asking for from you.

Mark for reading when I have a little time.


213 posted on 03/15/2006 9:23:00 AM PST by pollyannaish
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To: DOGEY

That was then, this is now.


214 posted on 03/15/2006 9:32:54 AM PST by MrLee
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To: MrLee

The Koran was written over a thousand years ago. Why does it reflect a Muslims view now and the Old Testament not represent a Christians view today?


215 posted on 03/15/2006 10:58:28 AM PST by DOGEY
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To: DOGEY

"Why does it reflect a Muslims view now and the Old Testament not represent a Christians view today?"

1. (1st part)Yes why?
2. (2nd part) Maybe you ought to read exactly why God orderted Israel to do what they did AND then, read what Jesus had to say.


216 posted on 03/15/2006 11:10:19 AM PST by MrLee
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To: MrLee

I do not understand your response. But I bet you are glad you were not Egyptian in biblical times.


217 posted on 03/15/2006 11:18:51 AM PST by DOGEY
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To: Louisiana

bump for later


218 posted on 03/15/2006 11:19:49 AM PST by Badray ("Senator," like "Dog Catcher" is just a job title, not a rank.)
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To: Louisiana

The Muslim world encompasses dozens of countries ranging from the Sahara to Indonesia, and consists of hundreds of ethnic groups.

So, to try and paint with a broad brush Muslims from countries as different as, say, Bosnia and Mali, is so simplistic as to be useless.

We're involved in a complicated war against a slippery opponent. E-mails like this add little to the discussion.


219 posted on 03/15/2006 11:21:49 AM PST by Potowmack ("Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government")
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To: Question_Assumptions
Yes, Christians lie. However, Christian do not lie as a matter of faith and doctrine. The Ten Commandments make it quite clear that lying is not an option. This is not the case with Muslims. Muslim faith and doctrine specifically permits lying. I am sorry to see that you can not distinguish the distinction.

I realize that not all Muslims will avail not themselves of their Allah given opition to lie. My question is, "How can we ever know which Muslim is evocking his religious right to lie and which Muslim is not?" The simple answer is that we can not know. The only thing we can for sure is that any devote Muslim knows that Allah has told him that lying is OK.

I realize that not all Christians follow their God's law about not lying. When interacting with a devote Christian I can at least be sure that he knows God does not want to him to lie.

220 posted on 03/15/2006 11:39:48 AM PST by Jeff Gordon (Is tractus pro pensio.)
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