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Can a devout Muslim be an American patriot and a loyal citizen?
email ^ | March 2006 | email

Posted on 03/14/2006 5:58:55 PM PST by Louisiana

Can a devout Muslim be an American patriot and a loyal citizen?

Consider this:

Theologically, no. Because his allegiance is to Allah, the moon god of Arabia.

Scripturally, no. Because his allegiance is to the five pillars of Islam and the Quran (Koran).

Geographically, no. Because his allegiance is to Mecca, to which he turns in prayer five times a day.

Socially, no. Because his allegiance to Islam forbids him to make friends with Christians or Jews.

Politically, no. Because he must submit to the mullah (spiritual leaders), who teach annihilation of Israel and destruction of America, the great Satan.

Domestically, no, because he is instructed to marry four women and beat and scourge his wife when she disobeys him (Quran 4:34).

Religiously, no. Because no other religion is accepted by his Allah except Islam (Quran, 2:256)

Intellectually, no, because he cannot accept the American Constitution since it is based on Biblical principles and he believes the Bible to be corrupt.

Philosophically, no, because Islam, Muhammad, and the Quran do not allow freedom of religion and expression. Democracy and Islam cannot co - exist. Every Muslim government is either dictatorial or autocratic.

Spiritually, no, because when we declare "one nation under God," the Christian's God is loving and kind, while Allah is NEVER referred to as our heavenly father, nor is he ever called love in the Quran's 99 excellent names.

Therefore after much study and deliberation....perhaps we should be very suspicious of ALL MUSLIMS in this country. They obviously cannot be both good Muslims and good Americans. Call it what you wish...it's still the truth. If you find yourself intellectually in agreement with the above, perhaps you will share this with your friends. The more who understand this, the better it will be for our country.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: islam; musilim; muslims; patriotism
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To: Lejes Rimul

HUM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!i see you have elected yourself moderator, judge and jury and politically correct thought policeman and resident nitpicker...............


101 posted on 03/14/2006 8:10:59 PM PST by OKIEDOC (There's nothing like hearing someone say thank you for your help.)
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To: lmr

Very cool little red X. Sorry if I missed the sarcasm :)


102 posted on 03/14/2006 8:11:03 PM PST by ARealMothersSonForever (Political troglodyte with a partisan axe to grind)
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To: Louisiana
You asked...

"Can a devout Muslim be an American patriot and a loyal citizen?"

Answer

Sure, as long as the US conforms to their Religion and Submits to their Laws and Practices, all we have to do is SURRENDER and they will be loyal Americans, simple just ask Durbin, Kerry, Pelosi, Clinton, Daschle etc etc
103 posted on 03/14/2006 8:15:07 PM PST by TexasTransplant (NEMO ME IMPUNE LACESSET)
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To: truthpls
I've had political discussion with him about why he doesn't vote Republican and know specific candidates he says he has voted for. If you'd like to call my friend a liar because you are so closed minded that you can't wrap your brain around the idea of a Muslim that's a normal human being, I'm going to ask you who the Hell you think you are to call my friend a liar and why should I trust you? Should I ask him if he'll let me join him in the voting booth next election? Given his experiences with anti-Muslim bigotry as an Iranian kid living in the United States in 1979-1980, I suspect he'd go along with that just to prove a point. But even then, I doubt you'd believe me because you'd just rather believe that you know what's in the heart of every single Muslim better than people who, well, actually know Muslims.
104 posted on 03/14/2006 8:15:57 PM PST by Question_Assumptions
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To: pissant
The best example I can think of is Lt Col Asad 'Genghis' Khan. He was, maybe still is, in Afghanistan with the 6th Marines. He and his men have tallied the most Al Qauda and Taliban Kills. I can't tell you what this man's religion is. I know that his family is from Afghanistan and he shares their customs. I don't really care what religion he is. I would call 'Genghis' a Patriotic Hero. http://www.geraldo.com/index.php?/archives/8_USMC_Forward_Firebase_Ripley_South_Central_Afghanistan.html

I know that the Kurds helped us in Iraq. I imagine that there are some Kurdish people who are Americans. I imagine they are proud that Hussein can no longer threaten their families. I would imagine that a lot of these people are patriotic Americans.

Don't get me wrong. I think the point to all this should be that there are good and bad people everywhere. We have Tim McVay and the likes of thugs like Charles Manson, the Middle East has UBL and Khalig Shake Mohammad, and the Demorats have Coward Dean and the likes of Mikhail Moore. There are bad people right here in the US. So, does that mean we shouldn't trust anyone? I love Ronald Reagan and this all give me the chance to say doveryay, no proveryay. Trust but verify.

Along with all that, let us not forget who we are. We are Americans. In peace or war we still have honor, dignity, respect, and integrity. Sometimes we fall short of our expectations but that's OK because we will still prove to be true in the end. Look at Japan. They are a great country today. The Japanese people are good people who contribute everyday to the world. They have a lot to be proud of. So does Germany. The ungrateful French are lucky they are not speaking German or English right now. And speaking of France and England, look at the difference in their former colonies. I think you will find that the British educated their colonies and helped those people showing honor and dignity, while former French colonies are not well off because their land had been raped and their people short changed. I ask you which country has more honor, dignity, respect, and integrity England, France, or the good ol' US of A?

My answer is the US if we work with people and show dignity, honor, respect, integrity, and justice. Doveryay, no proveryay, justice must be served. And so should respect, and honor, and dignity, and integrity. We can show people hope and a future, the likes of Al Quada can not.
105 posted on 03/14/2006 8:16:36 PM PST by do the dhue (I hope y'all will help bail me out of jail one day after I dot Ted Kennedy's eyes.)
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To: Louisiana

By these or similar criteria, many devout Jews and Christians can not be an American patriot and loyal citizen.

IMO, we have to be very careful about this kind of stuff. We don't want to alienate that which can be moderated. There were Crusades once after all. But I wouldn't say I'm not devout because I don't believe those were Biblically sanctioned.


106 posted on 03/14/2006 8:20:10 PM PST by pollyannaish
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To: ARealMothersSonForever

The best example I can think of is Lt Col Asad 'Genghis' Khan. He was, maybe still is, in Afghanistan with the 6th Marines. He and his men have tallied the most Al Qauda and Taliban Kills. I can't tell you what this man's religion is. I know that his family is from Afghanistan and he shares their customs. I don't really care what religion he is. I would call 'Genghis' a Patriotic Hero. http://www.geraldo.com/index.php?/archives/8_USMC_Forward_Firebase_Ripley_South_Central_Afghanistan.html

I know that the Kurds helped us in Iraq. I imagine that there are some Kurdish people who are Americans. I imagine they are proud that Hussein can no longer threaten their families. I would imagine that a lot of these people are patriotic Americans.

Don't get me wrong. I think the point to all this should be that there are good and bad people everywhere. We have Tim McVay and the likes of thugs like Charles Manson, the Middle East has UBL and Khalig Shake Mohammad, and the Demorats have Coward Dean and the likes of Mikhail Moore. There are bad people right here in the US. So, does that mean we shouldn't trust anyone? I love Ronald Reagan and this all give me the chance to say doveryay, no proveryay. Trust but verify.

Along with all that, let us not forget who we are. We are Americans. In peace or war we still have honor, dignity, respect, and integrity. Sometimes we fall short of our expectations but that's OK because we will still prove to be true in the end. Look at Japan. They are a great country today. The Japanese people are good people who contribute everyday to the world. They have a lot to be proud of. So does Germany. The ungrateful French are lucky they are not speaking German or English right now. And speaking of France and England, look at the difference in their former colonies. I think you will find that the British educated their colonies and helped those people showing honor and dignity, while former French colonies are not well off because their land had been raped and their people short changed. I ask you which country has more honor, dignity, respect, and integrity England, France, or the good ol' US of A?

My answer is the US if we work with people and show dignity, honor, respect, integrity, and justice. Doveryay, no proveryay, justice must be served. And so should respect, and honor, and dignity, and integrity. We can show people hope and a future, the likes of Al Quada can not.


107 posted on 03/14/2006 8:20:19 PM PST by do the dhue (I hope y'all will help bail me out of jail one day after I dot Ted Kennedy's eyes.)
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To: Question_Assumptions; All

Test your knowledge of Islam. Take this quiz. http://ameristan.net/popquiz.htm


108 posted on 03/14/2006 8:20:57 PM PST by gpapa (Boost FR Traffic! Make FR your home page!)
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To: hinckley buzzard

Are you sure they did not? There are many, many Kurds that are huge US and GWB fans. You just won't ever hear it in the press.


109 posted on 03/14/2006 8:25:21 PM PST by pollyannaish
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To: ARealMothersSonForever

I agree with your post wholeheartedly, and your comment sounded very much like a Yoda-ism. I love Star Wars, I see Star Wars in alot of things. It was a compliment with a splash of sarcasm. Yoda is wise and your comment is as well.


110 posted on 03/14/2006 8:25:47 PM PST by lmr (You can have my Tactical Nuclear Weapons when you pry them from my cold dead fingers.)
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To: Blackirish
I'll chalk that up for a scalp for me hysteria boy.

Please do. My obvious lie is that Americans may not travel free within the UAE and the KSA. The perceived insult must be that foreign middle-eastern media has no government control. I will apologize for the "swearword". Rump would be much more politically correct, without offending the sensibilities of our peaceful and contrite Muslim brethren.

111 posted on 03/14/2006 8:27:18 PM PST by ARealMothersSonForever (Political troglodyte with a partisan axe to grind)
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To: Louisiana

Well, then by your standard I am not patriotic.

My first loyalty is to God/Christ. That means that if my country ever tried to force me to do something that was against what I believe, I would go against it.

My first allegiance, above all, is to God. God, family, country.

So, there you go.


112 posted on 03/14/2006 8:27:59 PM PST by pollyannaish
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To: Blackirish
HUM!!!!!!!!!!!!!What do you expect peoples attitudes to be?

When all they have seen 24/7 is hooded cowards holding up severed heads firing their AK 47s and bragging about annihilating all infidels of which I am one.


There are millions of starving poor and the rich Sand Sultans are sitting on their fortunes not helping out except to educate the young in the hatred of the infidel.

I've been to the Middle East and lived in a predominately Muslim country and I do not consider myself to be a self appointed know it all.

I would suggest you see your doctor about your mind being blown.

That could be caused by reasons other than non politically correct postings.
113 posted on 03/14/2006 8:29:15 PM PST by OKIEDOC (There's nothing like hearing someone say thank you for your help.)
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To: F16Fighter; rogue yam
Are you kidding? The question as to whether a Christian can be a American patriot and a loyal citizen?? Wow, I've seen some ignorant posts, but this one is a beaut.

Maybe. Has it not occurred to you how unique and rare it is to live in a country where love of God and love of country are so closely in harmony? We always put God first, always we put conscience first, and yet we have no qualms at all in loving this country with a full heart.

This country was built on conscience, and the freedom to serve conscience first. How rare is that? Very rare; its the only one. There almost aren't any others.

Soldiers who serve this country do so with a clear conscience, with very few exceptions. You must realize how rare that is on this earth, where so many of this world's soldiers serve governments that are little more than mafias with law degrees.

Our army is one of the few on this earth in which soldiers are counseled to defy an "illegal" order, which is generally any order that would shock the conscience. That is very rare on this earth. Most soldiers in most armies are taught to put conscience on hold during their term of service. They are taught not to question orders. Only in an American army are the men expected to defy an immoral order.

There is always tension between conscience and country, and we always, in the end, resolve it in favor of conscience. Thats who we are as a country. It forces the country to follow the collective conscience of its people, rather than the other way around.

I'm sorry if my post seemed a little obtuse. The answer was obvious; it just struck me how rare that was. And how important it is that we put people of character in high places.

114 posted on 03/14/2006 8:29:53 PM PST by marron
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To: Question_Assumptions

Excellent series of posts, QA.


115 posted on 03/14/2006 8:29:57 PM PST by pollyannaish
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To: Question_Assumptions

Most Christians do not kill people based on their religious beliefs.

Currently, this is true"

Muslims always have.


116 posted on 03/14/2006 8:30:58 PM PST by philetus (Keep doing what you always do and you'll keep getting what you always get.)
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To: pissant
My experience with Muslims is similar. The Arab Muslims I have known have tended to be unpleasant, perpetually angry, and not very well grounded in reality. The Iranian, Pakistani, and Indian Muslims I have known are a different story. I'm not sure if it's a cultural difference or a Sunni/Shia difference.

My Pakistani co-worker and his wife are very fun-loving, tolerant, easy-going people. He even has a beer every once in a while. Maybe that means he's not a "good Muslim", but if so, a Catholic who sneaks a burger on Friday isn't a good Catholic, or a Jew who tries a ham sandwhich isn't a good Jew.

I'm not sure if it's a cultural difference or a Sunni/Shia difference. I do know the Shia tradition allows more for seperation of mosque and state and is more tolerant of other religeons than the Sunni tradition.

The bottom line, I think, is to judge a religeon by the actions of it's adherents, not it's dogma or scripture.

117 posted on 03/14/2006 8:30:58 PM PST by lesser_satan (You know, if ifs and buts were candy and nuts, every day would be Christmas.)
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To: Louisiana

Surgically concise presentation of the problems with muslims in America. Basically you can not trust them. They may be productive citizens for decades, they may even have been born here, hard workers, perhaps they are good husbands and fathers..... but you never REALLY know if one day they are going to go psycho and try to kill tens, hundreds, or thousands of "infidels" in the name of Allah.


118 posted on 03/14/2006 8:32:43 PM PST by Cruz
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To: muawiyah
There are Arabic Christian sects which go way back in Christian history. If an Arabic is reading an Arabic language Gospel, he may well be Christian. It would take someone wiser and more knowledgeable than I to know if I am right and explain it better.
119 posted on 03/14/2006 8:34:19 PM PST by ArmyTeach (Get a spine!)
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To: philetus

But see that is exactly the point.

If Christianity headed in a different way...so can Islam.


120 posted on 03/14/2006 8:35:34 PM PST by pollyannaish
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