Taiwan Storm Set To Get Louder (China)

BBC ^ | 3-14-2006 | Chris Hogg

[maui_hawaii]

luan jiang is more like 'talking nonsense'...

My Chinese is actually a bit rusty but I can still hold my own. I've been lazy to study for a while...

[maui_hawaii]

What were you doing in Shanghai? Lots of hot chicks in Shanghai btw.

[starbase]

I believe a lot of the Hakka Chinese went to Taiwan.

Yes, I'm staying in a Hakka town right now, and have a number of Hakka acquaintances. Their name in Chinese is "Ke Jya Ren", it means "guest tribe" as they have historically migrated down the length of China over the last thousand years or so. They often out perform the people around them and are known for being successful.

[185JHP]

BTTT

[maui_hawaii]

Annette Lu or whatever her name is came out herself and said she is ethnically Chinese but not politically Chinese.

True there are some loon jobs out there but the thinking types have stated the obvious many times over.

[Fishing-guy]

Oh yea, there a lot of loons.

I have a Chinese-American friend who once told me a story about when she was growing up in New Jersey. One day, one of her friends told her that her pro-Taiwan independence parents forbidden her from ever playing with my friend again, because she was too "Chinese." Just pathetic.

[blam]

"They often out perform the people around them and are known for being successful."

Thanks. I know the history of the Hakka.

[maui_hawaii]

what program are you using to type chinese with anyway?

[Republican Party Reptile]

I was doing supply chain strategy gig for a Fortune 100 American technology company - split my time btw Singapore and Shanghai for the last 3+ years. Amazing how much of our basic technology infrastructure products are all built within a few hundred kilometers of Shanghai.

Now relocated back in U.S..

Shanghai women ... yeah :), but they also have (well deserved, I'd say) the reputation as the most, umm, shrewd women in China. Shanghai men, on the other hand, are reputed to be the most hen pecked and utterly p***y whipped men in China.

[Jeff Head]

Sorry, I didn't really mean to paint you, personally, as any kind of communist yourself. But, I was pointing out...and apparently you expected it to be done...that the reasoning you are giving for some of your stances on issues is similar and in some cases congruent to their own...that's all.

As to the points you were making about the intertwining of Formosa and the mainland...one of those points you used to negate this particular comeback was that the ROC government claims to be the legitimate government of the mainland...but that is not the case anymore and is something nearly a decade or so out of date.

I believe from my own experience that the people on Taiwan are freedom loving, entreprenuereal, and vibrant compared to what I have experience on the mainland...particularly when you get away from the glittery showplaces that have been created in certain economic zones. I believe that is the case because of the freedom they enjoy and the republican institutions and free market they have established.

I have friends there who continue to do quite well...and not just some kind of executives. I am talking about mid-level management and workers that I know personally. Perhaps not as striking as it was a few years ago...but still comfortable by the vast majority of this globe's standards. That's the point I am trying to make, along with the fact that the CCP continues to be the inpediment to liberty for the people on the mainland...and that as long as their funding continues, I do not see that ending peacefully or happily any time soon.

FRegards.

[starbase]

Taiwan has never been part of modern China. Since the Treaty of Shimoneski back in the late 1800s they were never even territories of China.

I agree with most of your post except for this. Taiwan has been a province of China for a whopping 12 years. 8 years from 1892 to 1900, when the Japanese took it away. Then 4 more years as the government which fled to Taiwan ruled all of China. So for those 12 years Taiwan was a province of China. Plus the fact that it has always been settled by Fukien Chinese, but people want to play a game with "politically" and "ethnically", Chinese, that's all rather disingenuous I think, and you don't have to be a commie to see that!

[Cringing Negativism Network]

Firefox 1.5 :)

(they're just copy/paste big-5 characters)

[maui_hawaii]

Re: #38

Because Taiwan is a ethnically Chinese society that has successfully integrated democratic ideals and commonly accepted truth into it. That is SO HUGE. Standing alone that should do it,

The conflict arises from having two systems in one supposed society.

In reality its a bunch of smaller societies and cultures...but none the less...the CCP doesn't like competition...

[maui_hawaii]

I think you answered your own post within your own post :o) They are pwhipped because they are quite literally pwhipped.

You can't have it both ways if you know what I mean.

I was over there a few times on my own gig...but I haven't been back for a while. I wasn't working out of Shanghai though...

[liberty2004]

Why doesn't Taiwan want to join the mainland? HOW DO YOU SAY 'DUH' IN CHINESE???

well stated. Liberty is missing from people's rants here. Even though China is turning capitalist with its economy, they are still Clooney and Hillarys fantasy "perfect government" -- leftist totalitarian. The people are Taiwain desire to be "free" and freely elect their leaders. They are a very hardworking people.

[maui_hawaii]

We can discuss details later. I am half asleep right about now. As for the semantics question, its all about semantics...get used to it if you want to hang around the Taiwan debate for any amount of time, here or elsewhere.

[maui_hawaii]

Shanghai women ... yeah :), but they also have (well deserved, I'd say) the reputation as the most, umm, shrewd women in China.

AH! You said "SHREWD"...my bad.

Based on MY experience...um nevermind.

What do you mean shrewd?

[maui_hawaii]

FR doesn't support foreign language software...I tried typing Chinese here a few times and no can...

Oh well. I can live without typing Chinese although admittedly it would be good practice.

[maui_hawaii]

My eyes must be going bad. I could have sworn you said something else.

[starbase]

and apparently you expected it to be done...

Yes I've been around long enough (6 months!) to know that certain arguments are received in certain ways. Yet when our honest opinion closely follows one of those known tangents, then we must just be prepared to defend our words!

Look, I'd like to believe in a more pie-in-the-sky view of a capitalistic Taiwan, and it is of course infinitely superior to the twisted and sick dictatorship on the mainland. But after having been here at age 20, and returned at age 37 after a great deal more business experience, I just see many more things now than I did the first time I was here.

Namely, that despite their ancient culture of putting on good impressions, they are much nastier than I remember. This year the scandal blew up where Taiwan was importing Thai workers under one agreement, then forcing them to work at half the rate of pay by doubling their working hours without compensation. A riot finally exploded when the Chinese (or Taiwanese) managers starting hitting the Thais with electric prods!!! (Thais aren't known for taking other people's crap, particularly electric prods).

In my own dealings here I have come across some of the snidest, creepiest little behaviors I've ever seen, and no doubt the crappy economy is bringing out the worst in people, just as it does in the US when our economy tanks.

Anyway, everything I see is different now, and while I agree they are better than the mainland, I can also see how closely related they are, and how much your experience with them depends directly on how much they need you. And I'm not even implying that they are evil or wicked, only that they are a lot more calculating than I ever knew, in my opinion.

Are they worth supporting? Maybe, maybe not. I personally don't think so, but maybe the "established democracy" argument is correct and I'm wrong. The only thing for certain is that it would be nice if the Mainland Communists would just leave! All of this at that point would be, as you say, moot.