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To: Rokke

I proved my point with facts. Now you don't like my facts but you have done nothing to disprove them. You make specious arguments against them but have shown no facts disproving any of them.

From Source 2 --

"Dubai is also one of the region's most open banking centers and is the commercial capital of the United Arab Emirates, one of three countries that maintained diplomatic relations with the Taliban until shortly after Sept. 11. Sitting at a strategic crossroad of the Persian Gulf, South Asia and Africa, Dubai has long been a financial hub for Islamic militant groups. Much of the $500,000 used to fund the Sept. 11 attacks came through Dubai, investigators believe.

"All roads lead to Dubai when it comes to money. Everyone did business there," said Patrick Jost, who until last year was a senior financial enforcement officer in the Treasury Department's Financial Crimes Enforcement Network."

'snip'

"Dubai's links to suspected terrorist financing and money laundering have long been a point of contention between the United States and the United Arab Emirates."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A22303-2002Feb16?language=printer

Private companies in the UAE doing dirty deals is not a problem, right? Either the government knows (bad and likely) or they don't have control (worse).

Source 4 - EU supports Hamas too? Show me where the EU gives bounties for Jihadists. That is the worst equivalency on this thread and I'm no Europhile.

Pre 9/11 was okay? Wow, short memory for the Khobar Towers and USS Cole dead. Some of us are still angry about Lebanon and Iran. And I'm supposed to believe the UAE did a complete 180 and cleaned out all their Al Qaeda loving sheiks? Why? Their form of government is not capable of that. Sheiks are not voted out of power.

Source 6 -- So supporting Al Qaeda is now a WOD issue to you? Massive distortion by you. Guess what, our Mafia does not support global Jihad.

"He has declared Jihad on the whole Saudi royal family. And they have declared war on him. The fact remains, the reason they asked us to stop military operations out of Saudi Arabia has nothing to do with Bin Laden.'

Show me the FACTS on that and everything else you have claimed. Thus far all I have is your say so and that's not good enough especially given your dismissal of hard data to the contrary.




1,103 posted on 03/15/2006 8:07:35 PM PST by dervish ("And what are we becoming? The civilization of melted butter?")
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To: dervish
"I proved my point with facts."

OK, let's take a look at your point. It was... "Many elements in their governments, not to mention the populace, of SA, and ALL Gulf States including UAE support Al Qaeda and terrorism." So you believe the articles you linked prove the governments of Saudi Arabia and ALL Gulf states support Al Qaeda and terrorism. I've got more time now, so let me take another look.

Source 1. You've linked an article describing a 2002 message from Al Qaeda to leaders of the UAE. Let me quote from your source...."The warning was contained in a June 2002 message to UAE rulers, in which the terror network demanded the release of an unknown number of "mujahedeen detainees," who it said had been arrested during a government crackdown in the aftermath of the 9/11 attacks....
Little is known about the origins or authorship of the message."
Tell me again how this proves your point? A message from a questionable source is threatening the UAE because the UAE cracked down on terrorists after 9/11. Source 1 clearly does not prove your point.

Source 2...This is a Washington Post article published 6 months after the 9/11 attacks. It describes how the Taliban converted its assets into gold bullion and distributed it throughout the world including the United States. Dubai is described as being a central clearing house for international financial transfers. Why? To quote the article, "It is no more lax and unregulated than many places. The answer is, Dubai is so damn convenient." But the article discusses how everyone from the Taliban to the CIA use Dubai's financial markets to funnel funds around the region. Sounds kind of like the Swiss banking system. The article goes on to say, "Since Sept. 11, U.S. officials said, the emirates have been much more cooperative on tracing suspect finances and last month enacted the most stringent money laundering laws in the region." So Dubai has a loose financial system used by everyone including our CIA to transfer money around the world to places including the United States. Does this prove the UAE supports Al Qaeda. Apparently not anymore than it supports the CIA.

Source 3. As I said before...see source 1.

Source 4. An NRO piece describing UAE support of Hamas through bogus charities. Again, this would be more of an issue if Europe wasn't doing the same thing. In fact, according to William Pope, a State Department anti-terrorism coordinator, Hamas and Hezbollah get "a considerable portion of their funding from Europe." And this article defines even more clearly how charities in Europe support exactly what your NRO article accuses the UAE of doing. Interestingly, it says nothing about the UAE. So with that in mind, do we really want condemn the UAE and ignore Europe?

Source 5. Pre 9/11 does nothing to prove the UAE currently supports Al Qaeda.

Source 6. The article snippet discusses the baby brother of a drug runner who the UAE arrested in 2002 and deported to Pakistan, and another drugrunner who was last seen in Atlanta, Georgia before getting arrested in Portugal. Are you kidding me? This proves what?!?

So let's repeat the point you think you've proved..."Many elements in their governments, not to mention the populace, of SA, and ALL Gulf States including UAE support Al Qaeda and terrorism." You have not offered a single bit of evidence that the UAE currently supports Al Qaeda. And the only evidence it supports terrorism puts it in exactly the same boat as Europe.

1,105 posted on 03/15/2006 9:18:00 PM PST by Rokke
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To: dervish
"He has declared Jihad on the whole Saudi royal family. And they have declared war on him. The fact remains, the reason they asked us to stop military operations out of Saudi Arabia has nothing to do with Bin Laden.' "Show me the FACTS on that"

You are referring to this statement... "He has declared Jihad on the whole Saudi royal family. And they have declared war on him. The fact remains, the reason they asked us to stop military operations out of Saudi Arabia has nothing to do with Bin Laden." Fair enough. The following sources describe Bin Laden's war on the House of Saud...

"Iraqi intelligence agents were in touch with Al Qaeda leader Usama bin Laden (search) in the mid-1990s to plan how to oppose the Saudi ruling family, FOX News has confirmed."

"Among those most concerned are bin Laden's No. 1 target, the king and ruling princes of Saudi Arabia."

"Purported Bin Laden Tape Condemns Saudi Rulers"

"The ultimate goal of this campaign was to depose the Saudi royal family and install an Islamic regime on the Arabian peninsula."

And the following sources describe why (and when) we removed our troops from Saudi Arabia...

"Prince Sultan welcomed the U.S. decision but suggested that it was not a result of pressure from his government."

"Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld (search) and Saudi Defense Minister Prince Sultan said the pullout is because, with the war won, forces are no longer needed for their previous mission: patrolling the no-fly zone over southern Iraq."

"and everything else you have claimed."

Could you be a little more specific?

1,106 posted on 03/15/2006 10:20:21 PM PST by Rokke
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