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Holland launches the immigrant quiz
UK Times ^ | 3/12/06 | Nicola Smith

Posted on 03/12/2006 9:58:20 AM PST by wagglebee

TWO MEN kissing in a park and a topless woman bather are featured in a film that will be shown to would-be immigrants to the Netherlands.

The reactions of applicants — including Muslims — will be examined to see whether they are able to accept the country’s liberal attitudes.

From this Wednesday, the DVD — which also shows the often crime-ridden ghettos where poorer immigrants might end up living — will form part of an entrance test, in Dutch, covering the language and culture of Holland.

Those sitting the test will be expected to identify William of Orange and to know which country Crown Princess Maxima comes from (Argentina) and whether hitting women and female circumcision are permitted.

Muslim leaders in Holland say the film is offensive. “It really is a provocation aimed to limit immigration. It has nothing to do with the rights of homosexuals. Even Dutch people don’t want to see that,” said Abdou Menebhi, the Moroccan-born director of Emcemo, an organisation that helps immigrants to settle.

He added: “They are trying to find every pretext to show that people should not come to the Netherlands because they are fundamentalist or not emancipated. They confront people with these things and then judge them afterwards.”

Famile Arslan, 34, an immigration lawyer of Turkish origin, agreed. “I have lived here for 30 years and have never been witness to two men kissing in the park. So why are they confronting people with that?” she said.

She accused the government of preaching tolerance about civil rights while targeting non-westerners with harsh and discriminatory immigration curbs.

The new test — the first of its kind in the world — marks another step in the transformation of Holland from one of Europe’s most liberal countries to the one cracking down hardest on immigration.

Rita Verdonk, the immigration minister known as Iron Rita, has introduced compulsory integration classes, higher age limits for marriage to people from abroad and the removal of residency permits if immigrants commit petty crimes. She has also talked of banning the burqa.

The measures were prompted in part by outrage over the 2004 murder of Theo Van Gogh, who had made a film about the oppression of women in Muslim communities.

Applicants will sit the exam at one of 138 embassies around the world. They will answer 15 minutes of questions and those who pass the first stage will have to complete two “citizenship” tests over five years and swear a pledge of allegiance to Holland and its constitution.

The centre-right government of Jan Peter Balkenende, the prime minister, believes the tests will provide an objective way of assessing the suitability of applicants by gauging how well prepared they are to make the transition to Dutch life and their willingness to integrate.

Critics complain that people living in the mountains of Morocco or rural villages in Pakistan will not be able to make the long journey to cities for Dutch language lessons. According to Instituut Oranje, a Dutch language school, someone with a low level of education would require 250 hours of tuition, costing £1,200, to pass the tests.

The total bill of £1,495 — including £55 for a preparatory test pack and DVD and £240 for the exam — makes the process unaffordable for many.

Dirk Nieuwboer, a Dutch journalist based in Istanbul, said the multiple-choice cultural test included a question about how to behave in a cafe if two men at the next table started kissing. “There was another question about which former Dutch colony a particular spice came from,” said Nieuwboer. “Most Dutch people don’t know these things.”

However, Jeroen Dijsselbloem, a socialist from the parliament’s immigration committee, said the film had been created to help prepare people for “open-minded” attitudes on issues such as homosexuality. “We have lots of homo-discrimination, especially by Muslim youngsters who harass gay men and women on the streets. It is an issue here.”

A spokeswoman for Verdonk said an edited version of the DVD would be available for showing in Middle Eastern countries such as Iran where it would be illegal to possess images of homosexuality.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: holland; immigration; islam; netherlands; terrorism
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Muslim leaders in Holland say the film is offensive. “It really is a provocation aimed to limit immigration. It has nothing to do with the rights of homosexuals. Even Dutch people don’t want to see that,” said Abdou Menebhi, the Moroccan-born director of Emcemo, an organisation that helps immigrants to settle.

I doubt it is anywhere near as offensive as the murder that Islam promotes.

I would love to see the United States adopt a similar policy.

1 posted on 03/12/2006 9:58:24 AM PST by wagglebee
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To: wagglebee

TWO MEN kissing in a park....

I guess I'd better not emigrate to Holland. I doubt they'd like my reaction.


2 posted on 03/12/2006 10:01:22 AM PST by rbg81
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To: wagglebee; sure_fine; beyond the sea

This'll go over like a fart in church, all right.


3 posted on 03/12/2006 10:03:35 AM PST by butternut_squash_bisque (Borders, Language, Cultureā„¢)
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To: wagglebee

Critics complain that people living in the mountains of Morocco or rural villages in Pakistan will not be able to make the long journey to cities for Dutch language lessons. According to Instituut Oranje, a Dutch language school, someone with a low level of education would require 250 hours of tuition, costing £1,200, to pass the tests.

Hmmm. Maybe that's the point. Why would Holland really need people from the mountains of Morocco after all?


4 posted on 03/12/2006 10:04:07 AM PST by rbg81
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To: wagglebee

"I would love to see the United States adopt a similar policy."

I would not. The western world has to be careful how they respond to islamofacists. A test like this would quickly evolve into list of political correctness without which you can't enter the country. Real terrorists will just lie on the test..unless they hooked them up to electrodes, I suppose.



"TWO MEN kissing in a park and a topless woman bather are featured in a film that will be shown to would-be immigrants to the Netherlands.

The reactions of applicants — including Muslims — will be examined to see whether they are able to accept the country’s liberal attitudes. "


5 posted on 03/12/2006 10:04:31 AM PST by gondramB (Render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's and unto God that which is God's.)
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To: rbg81

I can see why they do it, though. It's conceivable to happen. Now, the topless women on the beach is very possible. IIRC, Holland has more nudists per capita than any other place on Earth.


6 posted on 03/12/2006 10:05:09 AM PST by GAB-1955 (being dragged, kicking and screaming, into the Kingdom of Heaven....)
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To: rbg81

For that matter, why would the United States need these people?!


7 posted on 03/12/2006 10:05:32 AM PST by wagglebee ("We are ready for the greatest achievements in the history of freedom." -- President Bush, 1/20/05)
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To: rbg81

How about two women kissing in a park, then? hehe


8 posted on 03/12/2006 10:06:30 AM PST by 1rudeboy
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To: wagglebee

It would be better if the Europeans grew some gonads again and just stated they weren't going to allow any more immigrants into their countries that aren't interested in assimilating at the least, or follow a religion that states they will overthrow your system of beliefs and laws and render you second class or dead. What's wrong with saying "no" or "no more." Huh?


9 posted on 03/12/2006 10:10:54 AM PST by john drake (roman military maxim: "oderint dum metuant, i.e., let them hate, as long as they fear")
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To: wagglebee; All
The total bill of £1,495 — including £55 for a preparatory test pack and DVD and £240 for the exam — makes the process unaffordable for many.

I think the Dutch might be saying: "If you don't want to learn our language and culture, and if you can't afford $3,000 to accomplish that, perhaps some other country would be a better place for you."

I wish we had the guts to do it.
10 posted on 03/12/2006 10:12:24 AM PST by econjack
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To: john drake
What's wrong with saying "no" or "no more."

Or even better, start expelling the ones who have not become citizens (although I admit I have no idea what the process to become a citizen there involves).

11 posted on 03/12/2006 10:12:51 AM PST by wagglebee ("We are ready for the greatest achievements in the history of freedom." -- President Bush, 1/20/05)
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To: RS; jan in Colorado; Fred Nerks; USF; Kretek; Marine Inspector; Chemist_Geek; gondramB
The western world has to be careful how they respond to islamofacists. A test like this would quickly evolve into list of political correctness without which you can't enter the country. Real terrorists will just lie on the test..unless they hooked them up to electrodes, I suppose.

I believe gondramB has hit the nail on the head. This takes us back to the good ol' border thread days...if those who wish to do us harm can deny their intent and religion, what good does it do to ask? We must think deeper than the knee-jerk responses if we wish to truly defend ourselves and our way of life.

12 posted on 03/12/2006 10:25:16 AM PST by Gondring (I'll give up my right to die when hell freezes over my dead body!)
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To: wagglebee

The Dutch get a spine. This is excellent news. Maybe the Canadian government can take a cue.


13 posted on 03/12/2006 10:26:39 AM PST by Former Proud Canadian (How do I change my screen name after Harper's election?)
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To: gondramB; All
I don't think the Dutch approach is solely to limit terrorists. To me, such a test prevents the kind of mistakes Canada has gone through. To wit: The massive French immigration into Canada 50 years ago saw businesses court the immigrants with signs and ads stating "Nous parle Francais ici". This caused a greater influx, to the point where the minority started clamoring for gov't publications, road signs, and local service people (public and private) to be provided in French. The next step was to demand dual-language instruction in all public schools. See any parallels in the US? If you don't, you're blind.

Immigration by those who refuse to assimilate is going to be incredibly expensive on a number of fronts, and it's not limited to illegal immigrants. History's about to repeat itself here, and we're all asleep at the switch, especially those in Washington. Even more scary is Hillary's (and many others) willingness to not only refuse to stem the tide, but to do everything they can to encourage it because they think they can create another "beholding class" in the process.

We're in deep trouble, people, and it's not getting any better.
14 posted on 03/12/2006 10:30:21 AM PST by econjack
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To: wagglebee

Muslims being Muslims, why wouldn't they simply cheat on the test?


15 posted on 03/12/2006 10:31:18 AM PST by Gritty (Hamza was preaching murder from the Koran itself. If Koran permit, you must acquit!-Mark Steyn)
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To: Gondring

No Problem - We've already got it covered in the visa application DS-156 -

"Do you seek to enter the United States to engage in export control violations, subversive or terrorist activities, or any other unlawful purpose? Are you a member or representative of a terrorist organization as currently designated by the U.S. Secretary of State?"

https://evisaforms.state.gov/ds156.asp?lang=1


16 posted on 03/12/2006 10:35:27 AM PST by RS ("I took the drugs because I liked them and I found excuses to take them, so I'm not weaseling.")
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To: Gritty; gondramB

I'm sure that many of the jihadists will cheat on the test; however, many "non-jihadist" Muslims move to Europe and it is there that they first come in contact with the militants. They begin to attend mosques where "Western hedonism" is pointed out to them, and then they too begin to share these beliefs. But these Muslims may elect to stay in their own countries if they are put-off by these images.

(I'm not sure this makes any sense, but I hope it does.)


17 posted on 03/12/2006 10:37:47 AM PST by wagglebee ("We are ready for the greatest achievements in the history of freedom." -- President Bush, 1/20/05)
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To: wagglebee
"(I'm not sure this makes any sense, but I hope it does.)"

It does make sense and is certainly a valid argument.

But consider that they already have to approve of two men kissing -it's not a big a stretch to require approval of gay marriage, support for banning "hate speech" - the rules already would exclude most American Christians.
18 posted on 03/12/2006 10:43:18 AM PST by gondramB (Render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's and unto God that which is God's.)
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To: wagglebee
... and a topless woman bather are featured in a film that will be shown to would-be immigrants ...

I would have no problem with that if the woman were hot.

19 posted on 03/12/2006 10:49:57 AM PST by CzarNicky (The problem with bad ideas is that they seemed like good ideas at the time.)
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To: rbg81

Exactly.


20 posted on 03/12/2006 10:54:33 AM PST by The Cuban
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