Posted on 03/09/2006 6:17:09 AM PST by American72
My husband has subscribed to a Daily Devotional Email from a Pastor Kerry at Covenant Lutheran Church (ELCA) in Houston, TX for a number of years. Although we are Missouri Synod, we know Pastor Kerry and have enjoyed the devotionals. Kerry recently went on a 6-month sabbatical doing who knows what and came back talking all this anti-war garbage. We were present at his Christmas Eve Service with the family (my husband's sister goes there) and almost got up and left when he started talking about our bombs killing innocents on Christmas Eve. My husband has already written him twice after his emails this week with no reply. Look at the website and read the devotionals from this week. Here are a few excerpts. I would post them all but it would be very long.
"Increasingly I am coming to believe that the best support, both now and in the long run, in the face of messages that say the quagmire in the Middle East will last for years, is to bring them home."
"Let us pray: Gracious God, the battles against evil rage in our hearts and in this world. Patience and love fall to power and weaponry. Our brother is dehumanized and our children are taught to kill with precision. Bombs are strapped to bodies and statesmen abuse the trust of their people and the power of their offices. Is there anything we can do or must we sit idly by? In Jesus’ name. Amen."
"I realize that I am not a philosopher or a theologian or an expert at anything, I’m nothing but a simple parish pastor. And I seriously question whether what we are doing in Iraq continues to be just and right or whether it has become something we are just doing because we have the might."
"Perhaps we haven’t learned much in the last 4000 years. But hopefully we have learned something. Hopefully we have learned that wars don’t solve problems. At best, war can create the opportunity whereby problems can be solved. I pray that is the outcome in Iraq and I pray that it happens as quickly as possible."
"Let us pray: Dear Jesus, just as people misconstrued the message of the Bible when they used it to convict you of blasphemy, so too people today use the Bible to justify their prejudices, fears and idolatries. Help us to truly and deeply see beyond the words on the page to the Word which your Spirit sows anew in our lives. In Jesus’ name. Amen."
Lol...Chirsitians can't have different views on Iraq? "Infiltrated our churches?" Come on...
I disagree with the pastor, and the emails/ services devoted to the subject are (in my opinion) over the line...But come on...
Wars don't solve all problems, but sometimes they are necessary...is Iraq II necessary? Without stating my opinion, I agree with you, Christians can certainly have differing opinions. To suggest otherwise is "crazy."
I feel for the families though, who have loved ones over there, that have to read a devotional that may call into question the morality of what their sons, daughters, husbands, and wives, etc. are doing.
How do you know he didn't? The pastor at my church (great guy, but pretty liberal on a variety of social issues, except abortion)was against both Iraq II and Clintons bombings...said so straight from the pulpit...at least he is consistent. I personally would not judge his faith by his view on a war...
I'm playing the odds but without much risk.
The pastor at my church...was against both Iraq II and Clintons bombings...said so straight from the pulpit...at least he is consistent.
But we weren't discussing the pastor at YOUR church, unless this references the one you attend.
To me it sounds more like he's being led by the moonbat liberals and not the Holy Spirit.
Maybe he should check which influence is greater in his life.
Yeah, I guess I would get pissed off too if my pastor told me to turn the other cheek.
I know we were't discussing my "guy." It was an illustrative anecdote, to back up my original point- how do you know the pastor in question didn't come out against Clintooon's bombings? Answer: you don't.
So to recap the problem for the US today (according to you) is that we need to establish a stable government to prevent blockades to free trade, democracy, etc. And this is different from
[the British] still needed assurance to access to market and trade routes,especially since they were broke from the war. So, they installed Sadam's daddy. That solved that problem. Ensuring they can still do their business over there, but no longer having to pay for the burden of administering the area, and militarily securing it with british troops.
how again? Motives are exactly the same. A democratic form of government has been tried in Iraq before. Guess what? It failed.
There is no connection between what the British were seeking to resolve and why and what we are seeking to resolve and why. THE PROBLEMS are completely different.
Oh of course. Since the motives are supposedly different (which they aren't), the problems therefore must be different (which they aren't)
So your premise is faulty, you assume that the definition of "solving a problem" means that you have prevented any type of future problem of any kind ever, no matter how unrelated , from happening in the same geopolitical area. That doesn't make much sense.
It makes sense if you understand the basic principle of cause and effect.
However, I digress. The original posting has to do with the principle that, according to 'conservatives', pastors should preach nationalism and be hawkish to be accepted by good Republicans.
That's tough.The First Amendment doesn't say that his church can't say anything about politics, it says that it can, without recourse by the government.
Of course you can encourage the government to exploit the IRS to harass the pastor for his speech. And in your shoes that is undoubtedly what he would do - not that that makes it right for you to do that.
"However, I digress. The original posting has to do with the principle that, according to 'conservatives', pastors should preach nationalism and be hawkish to be accepted by good Republicans."
Yep, and I would just add, that it also seems to suggest that pastors aren't good Christians if they are not the above...hence the one poster who talked about "our churches being infiltrated...."
No, the Wisconsin Synod is. Missouri is inbetween WI and ELCA.
That's your answer, actually, and don't try to force it upon me. My answer was and is: "I'm playing the odds but without much risk."
Of course wars don't solve everything "once and for all".
Where do you think we're living? In Heaven?
As long as we are on this side of death, the battle between Good and Evil will go on and have to be fought over and over.
WWII was such a war. And, in spite of your insinuations, it did solve a lot of problems.
ONCE AND FOR ALL.................
You knew you'd lose unless you threw in that qualifier, didn't you?!
Lol...which is paraphrasing for: "You don't."
Every war. Ever.
Wow. That's bold. But, of course, phrased as you have phrased it, it's almost true by definition. All you said was that they solved "a" problem.
Did the wars all supply a lasting solution to THE problem that caused the war to be fought in the first place? Did the solution cause other problems that have sprung up since that war was fought?
I know I probably rank in the top 5% of least conservative freepers, but this notion that our "men of God" must somehow trumpet all of our current political beliefs is a little odd, IMHO. Call me crazy, but I would expect more talk of peace than talk of war as the answer to the situations around the world.
Nothing I read at the top of this post appeared to bash Bush personally or our men in uniform.
{waiting now for the inevitable chastisement}
I can tell you that before he came back from his sabbatical he did not send politically charged devotionals. He discussed a different Bible passage each day and how it related to our everyday lives, maybe throwing in a personal anecdote, quote, or life experience of someone he knew.
And that's your way of stating that you don't know either, isn't it? ;-)
Let's wait for the FACTS from the original poster and we'll both know for sure.
Even in Wisconsin the WELS churches are rare. There are more Missouri Synod churches and the ELCAs are like McDonalds, if theres enough traffic to make a buck then a "church" pops up there.
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