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GALLUP POLLS: American Beliefs: Evolution vs. Bible's Explanation of Human Origins
Gallup / UPI ^ | March 8, 2006 | by Frank Newport /

Posted on 03/08/2006 1:45:50 PM PST by rface

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I fall into the ......respondents said they believe humans evolved, but God guided the process..., but I am surprised at the low % of Fundamentalist Evolutionists.... The way some of these Liberal Fundamentalists talk, you'd think the % of Godless Liberals would be much higher.....
1 posted on 03/08/2006 1:45:51 PM PST by rface
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To: rface

THE BIBLE AND THE BORDER: ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION FROM A CHRISTIAN PERSPECTIVE

--Robert Klein Engler




(CHICAGO--7 Nov. '05) Most social observers agree that the United States is a very religious country. By all measures of religiosity, the U. S. ranks high. At least 85 percent of the U. S. population claims they believe in God. Church attendance is high in the U. S. and so are donations to religious groups. With such a large number of citizens holding religious beliefs, it is little wonder that these beliefs are beginning to enter the debate over illegal immigration. To some observers it may seem that God and the border patrol are going to meet head-on.

If the U. S. is a very religious country, then it is also a predominantly Christian country. Some 80 percent of Americans identify themselves as Christians. Yale professor S. P. Huntington argues that Anglo-Protestant Christian beliefs are at the core of traditional American values. Anglo-Protestant beliefs, however, have changed and developed through the centuries since the founding of the nation. From the doorway of a storefront church on the south side of Chicago to the stained-glass windows of New York City's St. Patrick's Cathedral, the U. S. offers multiple expressions of the Christian faith.


Many Christians are now caught up in the debate about illegal immigration. Some do not know what to do to stop illegal immigration while at the same time living a faith that asks its believers to practice charity and forgiveness. Other Christians mistakenly believe that groups who are against illegal immigration, groups like the Minuteman Project, are immoral and dangerous. These Christians believe that illegal immigrants should be seen as people who need our assistance and compassion, not our judgment and condemnation.

Does the Bible and Christian theology have anything to add to the illegal immigration debate? Are Christians supposed to act one way or another on this social issue? I think Christianity does have some answers to the moral questions raised by illegal immigration. These answers are to be found both in Christian scripture and theology. In my view it is possible to be both a good Christian and have secure borders. It is also possible to demand illegal immigrants be deported and to practice Christian charity.

In chapter 13 of the apostle Paul's Letter to the Romans, the English translation reads, "Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God. Therefore he who resists the authorities resists what God has appointed..." (Romans 13:1-2). Clearly, this is advice to Christians to follow the laws of their nation and to respect the laws of other nations.

When people come to the U. S. illegally, they are committing a crime. They are doing something that is against the governing authorities of the U. S. Illegal immigrants are not good Christians from Paul's perspective. Illegal immigrants may have reasons for breaking U. S. laws, but those reasons do not excuse their illegal actions. We should not let charity and compassion blind us from the criminal act illegal immigrants commit.

Those who work in a law-abiding way against illegal immigration and those who ask that the laws of the U. S. be enforced are being good Christians in doing so. Likewise, those who demand that illegal immigrants be detained and deported respect the governing authorities of their nation. In line with Paul's argument, they are doing what good Christians ought to do.

This is not to say that illegal immigrants should be treated badly. Christians practice charity and respect for the individual, but they do not condone law breaking. Law-abiding citizens of the U. S. have every right to make sure their borders are secure and that illegal immigrants are removed from their country as quickly and humanely as possible.

There are ideas implied in Paul's other writings that also shed light on the contemporary issue of illegal immigration. In his Letter to Philemon, Paul address the issue of what is to be done about a runaway slave. In short, Paul sends back the runaway slave, Onesimus, and encourages his master, Philemon, to accept and forgive him. This may seem an unusual act by Paul to those who know that under Roman law, the master had absolute authority over the life and person of the slave.

Although illegal immigrants are not slaves the way Onesimus was a slave in the apostle Paul's time, we can see illegal immigrants today as persons running away from their moral obligations to improve their own country and not run down ours. If that is the case, then it is certainly a moral and Christian thing to encourage illegal immigrants to return home and make life better in their own country.

Moving from scripture to the domain of Christian theology, we learn that moral actions have both an objective and subjective component. The theologian Thomas Aquinas held that both subjective intention and objective consequence are necessary in making a moral judgment. In one of Thomas's examples, while out hunting it is better to kill your father believing he is a stag, than to kill a stag believing it is your father.

From the point of view of the moral theology of Thomas Aquinas, we may judge illegal immigrants from Mexico from both a subjective and objective point of view. Objectively, illegal immigrants are breaking U. S. immigration laws, but do these criminals have a subjective intention that outweighs the objective criminal act? Is breaking U. S. immigration laws justified because it is the only way poor Mexicans can feed their families, or do illegal immigrants who come to the U. S. have another choice?

Coming to the U. S. illegally is not the only choice poor Mexicans can make to improve their lives. They could also choose to stay in Mexico and work to make Mexico a better country. In fact, as good Christians it is their moral obligation to do this. It is better to improve Mexico than to be a criminal in the U. S. Illegal immigration may be the easy way out, but it is not the moral way. Christians are supposed to do what is good, even if the good is difficult to do.

Although Christianity encourages acts of charity, we cannot be both charitable and law breakers. We cannot rob Peter to pay Paul. The Archbishop of Mexico City should be encouraged to prevent Mexicans from coming illegally to the U. S. He should encourage Mexicans to work for Christian social change in Mexico instead of criticizing U. S. immigration policies. Unless the Mexican state changes, many Mexican citizens will never be able to have a fulfilled life. Nor can they find fulfillment by breaking U. S. immigration laws. To push the poor from your door to your neighbor's door is not an example of Christian charity.

It remains to be seen what other religious questions will be raised about illegal immigration to the U. S. It seems clear for the moment that as the debate over illegal immigration grows, so, too will the theological and scriptural debate over this issue grow. It may very well be that just as liberal Christianity in the U. S. inspired the civil rights movement of the late 20th century, so, conservative Christianity will inspire the secure border movement of the early 21st century.

Robert Klein Engler lives in Chicago. He is an adjunct professor at Roosevelt University. His book, A WINTER OF WORDS, about the turmoil at Daley College, is available from amazon.com.


2 posted on 03/08/2006 1:48:15 PM PST by chicagolady (Mexican Elite say: EXPORT Poverty Let the American Taxpayer foot the bill !)
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in addition:

Gallup finds that Republican backing for what it calls "God created human beings in present form" stands at 57% with Democrats at 44%.

3 posted on 03/08/2006 1:50:18 PM PST by rface ("...the most schizoid freeper I've ever seen" - New Bloomfield, Missouri)
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To: rface
of respondents said they believe humans evolved, but God guided the process

Problem is for the militant secularists that is not good enough. They want evolution to only be used for socio-poliical gain -- not the quest of knowledge for knowledge's sake.

4 posted on 03/08/2006 1:51:15 PM PST by tallhappy (Juntos Podemos!)
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To: rface
>>>>31%: ..... of respondents said they believe humans evolved, but God guided the process.

Sounds about right. Besides, I don't think God gets his kicks from deception.

5 posted on 03/08/2006 1:52:16 PM PST by Reagan Man (Secure our borders;punish employers who hire illegals;stop all welfare to illegals)
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To: rface
with lower levels of education, those who attend church regularly, those who are 65 and older, and those who identify with the Republican Party are more likely to believe in the biblical view of the origin of humans than are those who do not share these characteristics.

That settles it for me - educated, young, atheist Democrats choose evolution, those that do not fit the mold choose to believe that an all-powerful God is quite capable without waiting for a few kabilliontrillion accidents to occur.

6 posted on 03/08/2006 1:52:33 PM PST by trebb ("I am the way... no one comes to the Father, but by me..." - Jesus in John 14:6 (RSV))
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To: chicagolady

nice seeing you again


7 posted on 03/08/2006 1:53:24 PM PST by rface ("...the most schizoid freeper I've ever seen" - New Bloomfield, Missouri)
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To: rface
Only 1.2 percent said they believe the scientific theory of evolution and "God had no part."

Wow -- I didn't realize what a tiny minority they are.

8 posted on 03/08/2006 1:54:48 PM PST by Yardstick
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To: rface

In the year 1206, 99% of the world believed the sun revolved around the Earth.


9 posted on 03/08/2006 1:55:21 PM PST by Lunatic Fringe (Olfrygt: the nagging fear of being unable to find beer while out of town.)
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To: rface
I fall into the ......respondents said they believe humans evolved, but God guided the process...,

I thought that for a (short) while, but then I realized that it was totally contrary to what the bible teaches, so I threw that out.

10 posted on 03/08/2006 1:55:53 PM PST by ShadowAce (Linux -- The Ultimate Windows Service Pack)
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To: chicagolady

About half of Americans reject an evolutionary explanation for the origin of humans and believe that God created humans at one time "as is."

Do creationists really believe that God created man “as is”? Where do the cave men and other earlier examples of homosapiens fit in to the teaching?

11 posted on 03/08/2006 1:57:04 PM PST by street_lawyer (Conservative Defender of the Faith)
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To: Lunatic Fringe

And where exactly did you find that poll?


12 posted on 03/08/2006 1:57:15 PM PST by mlc9852
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To: Lunatic Fringe

and now we know that the Sun and the Earth revolve around each other......since the Sun isn't stationary, yet I would bet that today, some 99% think the Earth revolves around the Sun


13 posted on 03/08/2006 1:57:41 PM PST by rface ("...the most schizoid freeper I've ever seen" - New Bloomfield, Missouri)
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To: tallhappy
Problem is for the militant secularists that is not good enough. They want evolution to only be used for socio-poliical gain -- not the quest of knowledge for knowledge's sake.

That's a really bizarre claim. By that description, exactly how many "militant secularists" are there, and could you name a few for us and provide evidence that they actually hold the position you ascribe to them?

14 posted on 03/08/2006 1:57:50 PM PST by Ichneumon
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To: Yardstick

=== Only 1.2 percent said they believe the scientific theory of evolution and "God had no part." ===

1.2%

Funny how the micro-minorities seem to drive the agenda through our media.


15 posted on 03/08/2006 1:58:54 PM PST by Paloma_55 (Which part of "Common Sense" do you not understand???)
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To: rface

Google "Kent Hovind" and research.


16 posted on 03/08/2006 1:59:09 PM PST by Righter-than-Rush
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To: ShadowAce

we could debate, but it wouldn't move either of us.


17 posted on 03/08/2006 1:59:09 PM PST by rface ("...the most schizoid freeper I've ever seen" - New Bloomfield, Missouri)
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To: rface

< grin > I know.


18 posted on 03/08/2006 2:00:05 PM PST by ShadowAce (Linux -- The Ultimate Windows Service Pack)
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To: Lunatic Fringe

>>In the year 1206, 99% of the world believed the sun revolved around the Earth.>>

True! They also believed the world was flat, which the Old Testament said was round.


19 posted on 03/08/2006 2:00:11 PM PST by Righter-than-Rush
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To: Yardstick; rface
Wow -- I didn't realize what a tiny minority they are.

Yeah, about the same percentage as homosexuals yet look at how they've come to dominate the discussion. Almost makes you believe there's something else motivating it all, doesn't it?

20 posted on 03/08/2006 2:00:27 PM PST by FormerLib (Kosova: "land stolen from Serbs and given to terrorist killers in a futile attempt to appease them.")
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