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Conservative Jews to Consider Ending a Ban on Same-Sex Unions and Gay Rabbis
The New York Times ^
| March 6, 2006
| LAURIE GOODSTEIN
Posted on 03/06/2006 6:25:46 AM PST by mikey565
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To: mikey565
OK,
But, we don't want no stinkin' gay mohels!
21
posted on
03/06/2006 7:06:12 AM PST
by
aShepard
To: mikey565
Soon only the Catholic Church will be left, explaining the Left's unbridled hatred of the Church.
22
posted on
03/06/2006 7:09:42 AM PST
by
Aquinasfan
(Isaiah 22:22, Rev 3:7, Mat 16:19)
To: Paleo Conservative
>Surely they can't be serious
![](http://www.collectinghollywood.com/SJones1.jpg)
Shirley says they are.
(And she says Mr. Kinkaid
likes the idea!)
To: mikey565
Conservative Jews to Consider Ending a Ban on Same-Sex Unions and Gay Rabbis A touch deceptive in the headline. The strain of Judaism called Conservative isn't conservative. It's a descendant of Reform Judaism, a 19th-century liberal, no-Hebrew, "anything-goes" movement.
If I recall correctly, rabbis in the "Conservative" movement have been firmly pro-abortion for decades, the "moderate Republicans" of Judaism.
In effect, the NYT is running a shocking headline announcing that Olympia Snowe and Chris Dodd are liberals. I'd say the intended effect is to have us believe that actual conservatives favor poofery.
I'm not an expert, but I'm going to guess that the numbers of practicing Jews in the Orthodox and Hasidic movements blow away both "Conservative" and "Reform" participation.
To: svcw
They can not be conservative Jews if they are considering ending ban on same sex unions and gay Rabbis. "Conservative Jews" refers to a "denomination" of Jews. The four main "denominations," as far as I know, are "Reformed" (liberal), "Conservative" (moderate), "Orthodox" (orthodox), and Hasidic.
I expect the Orthodox and Hasidic to retain their orthodox stance regarding sodomy.
25
posted on
03/06/2006 7:13:09 AM PST
by
Aquinasfan
(Isaiah 22:22, Rev 3:7, Mat 16:19)
To: svcw
You said -- "They can not be conservative Jews if they are considering ending ban on same sex unions and gay Rabbis."
Well, "Conservative Jews" is a *name* not a *description*. That's the difference.
It would be more appropriate if you said -- "They can not be Orthodox Jews if they are considering ending ban on same sex unions and gay Rabbis."
Then the "name" would appropriately fit the "action" (and thus "description").
Regards,
Star Traveler
To: mikey565
There was a time not long ago when Conservative Judaism was a very "modern" form of Orthodox Judaism. Well within the perimeter2.
If they are moving toward the worthless Reform they will be just as worthless.
I believe only the Catholics have it right with the concept of "Lapsed".
You either believe or you are lapsed, you don't make up new beliefs from whim.
To: mikey565
I don't understand why anyone would care about losing members who cannot share the beliefs of the faith or why anyone would care about being stodgy and behind the times.
28
posted on
03/06/2006 7:17:31 AM PST
by
quadrant
To: Aquinasfan
The moderates are being pushed Left by social pressures. So there's a good chance Conservative Judaism will become extinct in 10 years or so. The more observant members will move to Orthodoxy and the rest will become Reform. If to be a "moderate" means to espouse behavior antithetical to Judaism, I don't see what good its being a moderate. They're the wimps of the Jewish world.
(Denny Crane: "I Don't Want To Socialize With A Pinko Liberal Democrat Commie. Say What You Like About Republicans. We Stick To Our Convictions. Even When We Know We're Dead Wrong.")
29
posted on
03/06/2006 7:22:11 AM PST
by
goldstategop
(In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives On In My Heart Forever)
To: mikey565
Oy Vey Fey.
30
posted on
03/06/2006 7:24:48 AM PST
by
N. Theknow
(Kennedys - Can't drive, can't fly, can't ski, can't skipper a boat - But they know what's best.)
To: mikey565
And a female Presbyterian "minister"was recently absolve by a margin of 6-1 for performing wedding ceremonies for two lesbian couples - it is apparently not outside her perview as one of their ministers.Any doubts that churches are becoming apostate?
31
posted on
03/06/2006 7:25:18 AM PST
by
trebb
("I am the way... no one comes to the Father, but by me..." - Jesus in John 14:6 (RSV))
To: sarasota
Exactly. They want to remain relevant but ditching tradition is only going to hasten their decline. Who wants to be a Conservative Jew when the more permissive Reform give you the freedom to be gay already without bringing halacha into it. And they lose what little respect they have from the Orthodox who will never change who they are no matter what era they live in. Either tradition means something or it doesn't. If Conservative Jews now believe tradition is outmoded and makes them appear stodgy and behind the times, they do not deserve to wear the appelation "conservative."
(Denny Crane: "I Don't Want To Socialize With A Pinko Liberal Democrat Commie. Say What You Like About Republicans. We Stick To Our Convictions. Even When We Know We're Dead Wrong.")
32
posted on
03/06/2006 7:29:24 AM PST
by
goldstategop
(In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives On In My Heart Forever)
To: mikey565
"And there arose another generation after them, that knew not the LORD" - Judges 2:10.
To: Aquinasfan
I always thought "Orthodox" and Hasidic were the same, or is it "ultra-Orthodox" the same as Hasidic?
34
posted on
03/06/2006 7:33:18 AM PST
by
mikey565
(Let upstate NY secede from NY)
To: mikey565
Can't they see what has happened to the Episcopalian church? I'm actually glad that Robinson was elected Bishop. It serves as a desperate and dire warning to all religions to not go down that path. Sadly, I don't believe that many will heed the warning.
35
posted on
03/06/2006 7:33:20 AM PST
by
ChocChipCookie
(Democrats: soulless minions of orthodoxy.)
To: Always Right
I marvel how it took only 10 years for Conservative leaders to decide halacha is too much of a burden to keep. Why not just become Reform if its so inconvenient? Stop insulting us by trying to rewrite Jewish law to say something it never meant. Jews are forbidden to change God's word. It doesn't matter what the gentiles do; Jews are supposed to be different and that is precisely the point of being a Jew.
(Denny Crane: "I Don't Want To Socialize With A Pinko Liberal Democrat Commie. Say What You Like About Republicans. We Stick To Our Convictions. Even When We Know We're Dead Wrong.")
36
posted on
03/06/2006 7:33:26 AM PST
by
goldstategop
(In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives On In My Heart Forever)
To: sasafras
The only Jews left who matter are the Orthodox. They haven't ordained female rabbis and you will never hear them talk about accepting homosexuality as normal. For them, keeping tradition isn't a matter of keeping up with the Joneses; its keeping faith with God and living in accordance with His laws.
(Denny Crane: "I Don't Want To Socialize With A Pinko Liberal Democrat Commie. Say What You Like About Republicans. We Stick To Our Convictions. Even When We Know We're Dead Wrong.")
37
posted on
03/06/2006 7:36:46 AM PST
by
goldstategop
(In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives On In My Heart Forever)
To: goldstategop
>there's a good chance Conservative Judaism will become extinct in 10 years or so
I do not think so.
What we're seeing all over
is the extinction
of "official" groups
that claim to represent folks
when really they're just
one or another
kind of political group.
But the internet
lets real grass roots groups
get together. The fake groups
one by one will die.
To: quadrant
If you are worried about what liberals think and what society thinks, then yes, social relevance is a consideration. If you are worried about God thinks and about the World To Come, then faithfulness to tradition precludes all other considerations from view. In view of this divide, its not surprising why the membership in liberal denominations is either stagnant or in decline. I have no doubt what will happen to the Conservative Jewish movement if it abandons the Torah's teachings in a bid to remain cool and in tune with the era's social fads.
(Denny Crane: "I Don't Want To Socialize With A Pinko Liberal Democrat Commie. Say What You Like About Republicans. We Stick To Our Convictions. Even When We Know We're Dead Wrong.")
39
posted on
03/06/2006 7:42:25 AM PST
by
goldstategop
(In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives On In My Heart Forever)
To: mikey565
I always thought "Orthodox" and Hasidic were the same, or is it "ultra-Orthodox" the same as Hasidic? That's what I used to think. But it's actually a relatively recent phenomena, having begun in the 18th century. I only have a vague understanding of it, but their spirituality is more mystical and Kabbalah-influenced than Orthodoxy, as far as I know.
40
posted on
03/06/2006 7:48:44 AM PST
by
Aquinasfan
(Isaiah 22:22, Rev 3:7, Mat 16:19)
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