Replies

"Ichy doesn't have much cred with me"

He does with me, and the links he provided are accurate. Do you dispute any of them or are you just going to hand-wave them away because you don't like the fact I linked to Ichneumon? If I had provided the same links (and I was tempted to do so), would that have meant you would have actually looked at them this time?

"And for Pete's sake, neither does TalkOrigins."

They accurately displayed what the creationists claimed. They then showed the actual passages the quotes were ripped from. Again, you hand wave it away because... well, that's all you have. :)

BTW, I remember that thread you had that disagreement with Ichneumon on. He was 100% correct. The website did not say that phylogenies were finalized. *Definitive* means the best available, not that it's the final position. You did not look very good in that thread; I am surprised you would wish to relive it again.

remember that thread you had that disagreement with Ichneumon on.

Hmmmm. What could have caused you to remember that thread?

Well, Ichy was saying "the textbooks *are* clear about the provisional nature of phylogenies, and do *not* teach them as "definitive" . . . ANY time, by ANY textbook."

Do you agree with that.

He does with me, and the links he provided are accurate. Do you dispute any of them or are you just going to hand-wave them away because you don't like the fact I linked to Ichneumon?

Dispute? I comment; you decide.

Mammal-Like Reptiles

As previously stated, a succession of transitional fossils exists that link reptiles (Class Reptilia) and mammals (Class Mammalia). These particular reptiles are classifie as Subclass Synapsida. Presently, this is the best example of th e transformation of one major higher taxon into another. The morphologic changes that took place are well documented by fossils, beginning with animals essentially 100% reptilian and resulting in animals essentially 100% mammalian. Therefore, I have chosen this as the example to summarize in more detail (Table 1, Fig. 1).

M. Eyes = ?

Nose = ?

Teeth incisors = ?

K. Eyes = ?

Nose = pointy

Teeth incisors = small

J. Eyes = Medium

Nose = stubby

Teeth incisors = BIG

I. Eyes = Medium

Nose = less stubby

Teeth incisors = big

H. Eyes = smaller

Nose = more blunt

Teeth incisors = smaller

G. Eyes = SMALL

Nose = Pointer

Teeth incisors = Skinny

F. Eyes = BIG

Nose = Blunt

Teeth incisors = Thin

E. Eyes = HUGE!

Nose = pointy, again

Teeth incisors = Bigger

D. Eyes = Smaller

Nose = Getting wider

Teeth incisors = Bigger: two!

C. Eyes = Huge, again!

Nose = broader

Teeth incisors = very small

B. Eyes = less huge

Nose = less broad

Teeth incisors = ??

A. Eyes = bigger again

Nose = rounded

Teeth incisors = small

Skulls and jaws of synapsid reptiles and mammals; left column side view of skull; center column top view of skull; right column side view of lower jaw. Hylonomus modified from Carroll (1964, Figs. 2,6; 1968, Figs. 10-2, 10-5; note that Hylonomus is a protorothyrod, not a synapsid). Archaeothyris modified from Reisz (1972, Fig. 2). Haptodus modified from Currie (1977, Figs, 1a, 1b; 1979, Figs. 5a, 5b). Sphenacodo n modified from Romer & Price (1940, Fig. 4f), Allin (1975, p. 3, Fig. 16);note: Dimetrodon substituted for top view; modified from Romer & Price, 1940, pl. 10. Biarmosuchus modified from Ivakhnenko et al. (1997, pl. 65, Figs. 1a, 1B, 2); Alin & Hopson (1992; Fig. 28.4c); Sigogneau & Tchudinov (1972, Figs. 1, 15). Eoarctops modified from Broom (1932, Fig. 35a); Boonstra (1969, Fig. 18). Pristerognathus modified from Broom (1932, Figs 17a, b,c); Boonstra (1963, Fig. 5d). Procynosuchus modified from Allin & Hopson (1992, Fig. 28.4e); Hopson (1987, Fig. 5c); Brink (1963, Fig. 10a); Kemp (1979, Fig. 1); Allin (1975, p. 3, Fig. 14). Thrinaxodon modified from Allin & Hopson (1992, Fig. 28.4f);Parrington (1946, Fig. 1); Allin (1975, p. 3, Fig. 13). Probainognathus modified from Allin & Hopson (1992, Fig. 28.4g); Romer (1970, Fig. 1); Allin (1975, p. 3, Fig. 12). Morga nucodon modified from Kermack, Mussett, & Rigney (1981, Figs. 95, 99a; 1973, Fig. 7a); Allin (1975, p. 3, Fig. 11). Asioryctes modified from Carroll (1988, Fig. 20-3b). Abbreviations: ag = angular; ar = articular; cp = coronoid process; d = dentary; f = lateral temporal fenestra; j = jugal; mm = attachment site for mammalian jaw muscles; o = eye socket; po = post orbital; q = quadrate; rl = reflected lamina; sq = squamosal; ty = tympanic. .

Are you convinced yet?

Oscillating eye sizes,

head shapes that shift back and forth,

teeth that are large, then small, then large again.

Yeah; I believe this stuff!

(The chart is from The Fossil Record: Evolution or "Scientific Creation" by Clifford A. Cuffey. It is on part 5 of a multipart article. The beginning of the article is here. )

[Some folks say the article discredits Creationism......]