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"Moronite"..

...Is a perfectly suitable term for Capitan U-boat man.

My aren't we clever. I notice a lot of: me too, me too with you guys. You don't seem to understand that watie is standing up to you alone and you find yourselves in some self-righteous mode as two third graders ganging up on the third. I have to admire sw and not admire you very much.

It goes without saying that modern education is full of myths and untruths about the settlement of our country. Seems to me that modern education is full of myths about the WBTS as well. Hell, it doesn't SEEM to me it IS.

When you guys can quit spouting about how noble the North was and how ignoble the South was and tell me who in the North went to war to end slavery, I'll start to listen. Until then you are no more than liberal members of the NEA flouting lies about the WBTS and flapping your gums like Gabby Hayes. You remember Gabby Hayes don't you? He had no teeth.

You are nothing more than that. Toothless professors of a newborn faith. When you choose to understand the war it would be a good idea to apologize to people like sw who have sacraficed a lifetime in the service of country.

I sincerely doubt any of you have done so.

You are nothing more than that. Toothless professors of a newborn faith

We are Americans. Many of us, myself included, had ancestors who fought on both sides of that tragic conflict known as The Civil War. There is a complexity that envelops the analysis of the origins, causes, and ultimate denouement of that saddest of American Wars--but buddy, let me tell you this:

The South is a part of this country, and both the "Union" that defeated it and the South that fought to leave it are better off for it. When I was in the Air Force serving my country--something I doubt you've ever deigned to do--the guys who'd get the most choked up when the "Star-spangled banner" played on Veterans Day were Southerners. They'd accepted that they were fully integrated members of the United States--and were damn proud of it. If the Cold War had ever turned Hot there in Europe (where I served), we'd have all gone into battle against the Warsaw Pact as Americans.

Not Southerners. Not "Yankees." Neither Lincolnites nor Stonewall Jackson fans but simply A-M-E-R-I-C-A-N-S.

The Civil War has been over for a long, long, long time. It is possible to debate the merits of the causes and results of that war without disparaging what came of it, namely a country I am proud to have been born in, served with my time in its military, and live in right now as we speak: The United States of America. And man-oh-man am I ever proud to sound out those words! My country, and I won't apologize for a second that it exists today thanks to the efforts of those whom strived, circa 1861-65, to keep it together.

The fatuousness of those of you who comprise the Lost Cause Squad offend me on a visceral level. I speak only for myself, but I suspect many of the pro-American ("Yankee") posters respond in these threads in the same sense. The facts are largely on "our" side, to be sure, but it goes beyond that, at least for me: when one has served in this country's military, and has a father who served, and a grandfather, and a great-grandfather, and a great-great-grandfather beyond him, it really becomes rather tiresome to hear some crank denigrate such service with a dismissive reference to what Sherman may or may not have done in Georgia (I happen to think he did exactly what he should have done, BTW). It is equally offensive to hear the 16th President of the United States, a Republican, BTW, slandered in the most offensive way, with lies that wouldn't past muster on a third grade recess yard.

I say all this to lay the groundwork for a simple statement: to hell with your assertion that we are "toothless professors" of some "newborn faith," and to hell with you. We are "professors" of nothing more, or less, than the fact that we are Americans. No one in their right mind would claim that this country is, or ever has been in the past, perfect. I certainly do not claim so.

But it is, and long has been, "the last, best hope of earth" (as a great man once noted; guess who?) for some time now.

One can debate the nuances & battles of the Civil War. But one certainly cannot debate that.

Yet, you savants in the Lost Cause Squad give it your best, post after post after post, and thread after thread. This is what drives the well-deserved contempt you folks receive in response, not the petty quibbles about whether Grant was chewing "aspirin" at Cold Harbor.

And you earn the full measure of that contempt, repeatedly.

"It goes without saying that modern education is full of myths and untruths about the settlement of our country."

I agree. The P/C leftist agenda crowd wormed their way into all levels of American education, brazenly since the 1960's.

"Seems to me that modern education is full of myths about the WBTS as well."

Do you mean Stand's ongoing myths? One in particular concerning his statements of "100,000.. or 200,000 Southern blacks fought for (his) "Dixie Republic"?

"...it would be a good idea to apologize to people like sw who have sacraficed a lifetime in the service of country."

If that doesn't take the cake! lol! Stand, the one always saying his "real" "country" is the some invented future "Dixie Republic" and has added anyone living in the South not in agreement will be forced out, especially "dammyankees" & "traitors to Dixie".

Are you in agreement with Stand? If so, you should apologize to everyone in here for supporting his lunacy about ripping America in two, instead of focusing on defeating the Islamic terrorist enemy who cares less which state Americans reside, as long as all of US are butchered by those psychotic savages.

In terms of the history of the American Civil War you asked, "tell me who in the North went to war to end slavery"..

For starters anyone in abolitionist societies either in the North or South who favoured ending the national stain of slavery on the very soul of America. People involved in the "Underground Railroad". Clergymen apposed to slavery served the troops spiritual needs. Also, men such as Col. Robert Gould Shaw & the Mass 54th.

Once they were allowed to fight for freedom & abolish slavery more than 186,000 blacks voluntarily served in the U.S. military during the Civil War. These men constituted 10 percent of the total Union Army force and 25 percent of the U.S. Navy strength. Another 200,000 served in various support capacities for the North.

29th Regiment from Connecticut at Beaufort, S.C., 1864.

By the time the Confederate insurrection was defeated, seventeen black soldiers and four black sailors were awarded the Congressional Medal of Honor. Or does that count for you?

On the other hand in 1863 the self appointed "Confederate Congress" threatened to severely punish all white officers in command of black Union troops, and to enslave black Union soldiers immediately, if they were not murdered outright if captured.

So much for armed slaves willingly "fighting for" Dixie's politicians instigated armed rebellion against their own country.

Here is a prime example of slaves fighting for their own freedom, plus that of other Confederate slaves:

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"In 1862 Robert Smalls, a 23-year-old mulatto slave, was employed by Confederates in Charleston, S.C. as pilot of Planter, area commander General Roswell Ripley’s transport steamer.

"In the early morning hours of May 13 the ship was loaded with armaments for the rebel forts. Contrary to regulations the white captain and crew were ashore for the night.";

"At about 3 a.m. Smalls commandeered the 147-foot vessel from a dock fronting General Ripley’s home and office. Smalls and his crew sailed to a nearby dock, collected family members from another ship and headed toward sea. Aboard Planter during its dash to the Union blockading squadron were Smalls’ wife, children and 12 other slaves."

"Smalls donned the captain’s broad-brimmed straw hat and assumed the captain’s typical stance - arms akimbo - in the pilot house. As he passed each rebel fort he gave the correct whistle signal and was allowed to pass. Onward, the nearest Union blockading vessel, was preparing to fire on the approaching ship when Smalls raised a white flag and surrendered."

"Union press hailed Smalls as a national hero, calling the ship “the first trophy from Fort Sumter.” "A Congressional bill signed by President Lincoln awarded prize money to Smalls and his associates."

"In August 1862 two Union generals sent Smalls and missionary Mansfield French to meet with Secretary of War Stanton and President Lincoln. Their request to recruit 5000 black troops was soon granted." "In October, 1862 during a speaking tour of New York to raise support for the Union cause Smalls was presented an engraved gold medal by “the colored citizens of New York” for his heroism, love of liberty and patriotism." source

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It is ironic that many Southerners, while not slave holders themselves, consented to fight to preserve or maintain what would be a slave-holding dictatorship if the Confederate's cotton based slaveocracy had been successful in destroying the United States and then would have expanded slavery westward.

There are also many clear examples of Southerners in various Southern states remaining loyal American citizens and fighting those attempting to destroy the U.S. as a nation, which would have left the U.S. vulnerable to aggressive European powers. Slavery Inc., didn't give a damn - did they?

For the record, Jefferson Davis’ own slaves eavesdropped on his treasonous meetings--and passed information to American Army agents.

If what you so defend was so bloody well wonderful, why did hundreds of thousands of Black Americans flee the post-Civil War Jim Crow South?

You don't seem to understand that watie is standing up to you alone and you find yourselves in some self-righteous mode as two third graders ganging up on the third. I have to admire sw and not admire you very much.

Stand waite is posting, and reposting, and posting yet again claims that are without a single basis in fact. Complete and utter lies. Total bullshit. However you want to phrase it. If you want to do him a favor and shut the rest of us up them help him out by providing some evidence that supports his claims. Until then jumping on the liar's bandwagon and offering him support does you no great credit.

When you guys can quit spouting about how noble the North was and how ignoble the South was and tell me who in the North went to war to end slavery, I'll start to listen.

When you can point out the last time any of us said that the U.S. pursued the war that the south forced on them solely to end slavery thtn I'll start listening to you, too. Until then you're just spreading the same kind of nonsense that waite is.

When you choose to understand the war it would be a good idea to apologize to people like sw who have sacraficed a lifetime in the service of country.

I believe it was Heyworth, or maybe M. Espinola, who had compiled stand waite's resume based on his past claims. Perhaps they can repost it. According to that, stand has given several lifetimes of service to the country.