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To: sgtyork

Funny, I don't see any changes that have been made since 1978 in the section 1804 application required to make it easier for DOJ to prep an application. Have you ever seen what the FISA warrant application requires?

(1) the identity of the Federal officer making the application;

(two seconds to write a name)

(2) the authority conferred on the Attorney General by the President of the United States and the approval of the Attorney General to make the application;

(simple boilerplate, prepped once by the AG's constitutional lawyers and then zero time required by the field agents)

(3) the identity, if known, or a description of the target of the electronic surveillance;

(two seconds to write a name or address)

(4) a statement of the facts and circumstances relied upon by the applicant to justify his belief that—
(A) the target of the electronic surveillance is a foreign power or an agent of a foreign power; and
(B) each of the facilities or places at which the electronic surveillance is directed is being used, or is about to be used, by a foreign power or an agent of a foreign power;

(two minutes to write why the suspect is a suspect)

(5) a statement of the proposed minimization procedures;

(more boilerplate saying 'how we won't use the extraneous info,' something like: if found not to be foreign intelligence information, if recorded the information will not be indexed, and thus become non-retrievable, if in hard copy from facsimile intercept or computer print-out it will be discarded, if an re-recordable media it will be erased, or if too bulky or too sensitive, will be destroyed.)

(6) a detailed description of the nature of the information sought and the type of communications or activities to be subjected to the surveillance;

(more specific than boilerplate but generally the same, i.e., foreign intelligence re: domestic spying/terrorist penetration into the U.S., let's say five minutes to be conservative)

(7) a certification or certifications by the Assistant to the President for National Security Affairs or an executive branch official or officials designated by the President from among those executive officers employed in the area of national security or defense and appointed by the President with the advice and consent of the Senate—
(A) that the certifying official deems the information sought to be foreign intelligence information;
(B) that a significant purpose of the surveillance is to obtain foreign intelligence information;
(C) that such information cannot reasonably be obtained by normal investigative techniques;
(D) that designates the type of foreign intelligence information being sought according to the categories described in section 1801 (e) of this title; and
(E) including a statement of the basis for the certification that—
(i) the information sought is the type of foreign intelligence information designated; and
(ii) such information cannot reasonably be obtained by normal investigative techniques;

(all a signature under boilerplate thus far, let's say two seconds)

(8) a statement of the means by which the surveillance will be effected and a statement whether physical entry is required to effect the surveillance;

(thirty seconds to write how the entry is to be made)

(9) a statement of the facts concerning all previous applications that have been made to any judge under this subchapter involving any of the persons, facilities, or places specified in the application, and the action taken on each previous application;

(thirty seconds to make sure the judge knows this isn't simply repetitive re-application)

(10) a statement of the period of time for which the electronic surveillance is required to be maintained, and if the nature of the intelligence gathering is such that the approval of the use of electronic surveillance under this subchapter should not automatically terminate when the described type of information has first been obtained, a description of facts supporting the belief that additional information of the same type will be obtained thereafter; and

(one minute either detailing the time limitation on the scope of the warrant or explaining why there shouldn't be one)

(11) whenever more than one electronic, mechanical or other surveillance device is to be used with respect to a particular proposed electronic surveillance, the coverage of the devices involved and what minimization procedures apply to information acquired by each device.

(more boilerplate saying 'how we won't use the extraneous info')

AND whenever the target of the electronic surveillance is a foreign power, and each of the facilities or places at which the surveillance is directed is owned, leased, or exclusively used by that foreign power, the application doesn't even need THAT.

So an AAG spends ten minutes with an agent to get the warrant info, ten minutes filling out the application, and then whatever time it takes to get a judge to sign the warrant, a judge grants them quickly, according to your NR source. Yet that isn't laughable?

According to your own source, the 9/11 commission, the REAL problem ISN'T with getting a warrant that takes minutes to fill out and fewer to get. According to your citation, that "the FBI bureaucracy involved in applying for a FISA warrant was stifling." Why should we give that agency or the AG the power to evade these simple warrant requirements, when what is keeping them from getting warrants is not the law but the bureaucratic nature of those agencies and the federal government? Saying the way to solve the problem with the federal government and bureaucracy is to give the bureaucracy more power and less law to follow is like saying the way to cure cancer is to shoot people who get it. The 9/11 commission's 'solution' to the problem is to turn the entire federal law enforcement structure into another huge unibureaucracy, when in fact the primary problem seems to have all been created by Clinton administration-era bureacrats and bureaucracy at the FBI. The solution to the problem is to fire the damn bureaucrats who screwed up in overinterpreting the law to restrict information sharing, give the agencies fewer tasks and thus less broad power necessary or to abuse in doing those tasks, and return the federal government to doing its job of defending this country against threats from afar, instead of screwing around with the myriad federal crimes that have little to do with its Constitutional role.

But the Patriot Act doesn't do that, doesn't change the application process, and didn't just make getting a warrant easier. Under Patriot, the FBI doesn't have to know that the target of the roving FISA wiretap is using the phone being tapped. The FBI could simply tap a neighborhood exchange where a suspect is spotted and hope a terrorist uses a phone there. And the FBI can now get a warrant to wiretap a phone or computer without specifying either the suspect under surveillance or the phones or computers to be tapped. Does that sound like a warrant at all?

"We think that SOMEONE may use A phone or computer to commit a terrorist act, but we don't know who, and we don't know which phone or computer, and we swear we'll only use that power for national security purposes. Can we get a blank warrant, now, judge? Love, Hillary."


31 posted on 03/01/2006 10:58:06 PM PST by LibertarianInExile (Freedom isn't free--no, there's a hefty f'in fee--and if you don't throw in your buck-o-5, who will?)
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To: LibertarianInExile

Funny, I don't see any changes that have been made since 1978 in the section 1804 application required to make it easier for DOJ to prep an application. Have you ever seen what the FISA warrant application requires?

You haven't seen a change to the act because the relaxation was included in the Patriot act.


The Patriot Act included some provisions, supported by lawmakers of both parties, to make securing such warrants easier. But it did not fix the problem. In April 2004, when members of the September 11 Commission briefed the press on some of their preliminary findings, they reported that significant problems remained.

http://www.nationalreview.com/york/york200512191334.asp


Before the PATRIOT Act, law enforcement had the authority to conduct electronic surveillance - by petitioning a court for a wiretap order - when investigating many ordinary, non-terrorism crimes. Agents also could use wiretaps to investigate some, but not all, of the crimes that terrorists often commit.


The non-terrorism offenses for which wiretaps were available included: drug crimes, mail fraud, and passport fraud.


Section 201 (of the Patriot Act) enabled investigators to gather information when looking into the full range of terrorism-related crimes, including: chemical-weapons offenses, the use of weapons of mass destruction, killing Americans abroad, and terrorism financing.


Section 201 preserved all of the pre-existing standards in the wiretap statute. For example, law enforcement still must: (1) apply for and receive a court order; (2) establish probable cause that criminal activity is afoot; and (3) first have tried to use "normal investigative procedures."

http://www.lifeandliberty.gov/subs/add_myths.htm#s201

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Funny, I don't see any changes that have been made since 1978 in the section 1804 application required to make it easier for DOJ to prep an application

I suspect that you haven't seen a FISA warrant either, but here is what Victoria Toensing (former dpty AG who participated in writing FISA) describes

"FISA still requires extensive time-consuming procedures. To prepare the two- to three-inch thick applications for nonemergency warrants takes months."

http://www.opinionjournal.com/editorial/feature.html?id=110007848

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the REAL problem ISN'T with getting a warrant that takes minutes to fill out and fewer to get. According to your citation, that "the FBI bureaucracy involved in applying for a FISA warrant was stifling."

The bureaucracy was responding to the pressure being applied by who????... The FISA court (According to the New York Times)

In addition, recent interviews of intelligence officials by The New York Times suggest that the bureau had a reason for growing cautious about applying to a secret national security court for special search warrants that might have supplied critical information. The FBI, the officials said, had become wary after a well-regarded supervisor was disciplined because the court complained that he had submitted improper information on applications.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/692148/posts

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Under Patriot, the FBI doesn't have to know that the target of the roving FISA wiretap is using the phone being tapped. The FBI could simply tap a neighborhood exchange where a suspect is spotted and hope a terrorist uses a phone there. And the FBI can now get a warrant to wiretap a phone or computer without specifying either the suspect under surveillance or the phones or computers to be tapped

I think you've fallen for some hype..

http://www.lifeandliberty.gov/subs/add_myths.htm#s201


Myth: "These wiretaps pose a greater challenge to privacy because they are authorized secretly without a showing of probable cause of crime. This Section represents a broad expansion of power without building in a necessary privacy protection." [ACLU, Oct. 23, 2001]


Reality:


For years, law enforcement has been able to use "roving wiretaps" - in which a wiretap authorization attaches to a particular suspect, rather than a particular communications device - to investigate ordinary crimes, including drug offenses and racketeering. The authority to use roving wiretaps in drug cases has existed since 1986.


Section 206 authorized the same techniques in national-security investigations. This provision has enhanced the government's authority to monitor sophisticated international terrorists and intelligence officers, who are trained to thwart surveillance, such as by rapidly changing cell phones, just before important meetings or communications.


A wiretap under section 206 can be ordered only after the FISA court makes a finding that the actions of the target of the application may have the effect of thwarting the surveillance.


A number of federal courts - including the Second, Fifth, and Ninth Circuits - have squarely ruled that roving wiretaps are perfectly consistent with the Fourth Amendment.


Whether the Department has used section 206 is classified. Details about its use were provided to the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence on May 29, 2003, in response to a request by the House Committee on the Judiciary.


This provision will sunset on December 31, 2005.

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"We think that SOMEONE may use A phone or computer to commit a terrorist act, but we don't know who, and we don't know which phone or computer, and we swear we'll only use that power for national security purposes. Can we get a blank warrant, now, judge? Love, Hillary."


"Hello Aksheesh, this is Muhammed. I am coming to America to strike for jihad. I want to ask a question of you for your great help. Should I bring my European cell phone or should I buy one after I arrive in America because the cursed NSA cannot spy on domestic cell phones. Will the dirty Jew sell me twenty one time without suspicion? After I arrive I will want to arrange a bomb-- I mean special celebration for jews and infidels. Can you help me get a cell phone or some special chemicals I will list in another email?"


32 posted on 03/03/2006 8:30:46 PM PST by sgtyork
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