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My Choice (moral relativism gone mad)
Hartford Courant ^ | 2/19/2006 | Rev. Donna Shaper

Posted on 02/21/2006 5:58:36 AM PST by Neville72

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To: Neville72
I chose, with some searching, to exercise my constitutional right and ended her birth.

Ummmm... right. Tell that to the Big Guy.

141 posted on 02/21/2006 3:36:40 PM PST by LaineyDee (Don't mess with Texas wimmen!)
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To: Neville72; Aquinasfan
I did what was right for me, for my family, for my work, for my husband and for my three children. I happen to agree that abortion is a form of murder.

So what was the terrible threat to her family, her work her husband and her three children that she had to "murder" an innocent child? I would hate to be crossing the street in front of this woman's car if she were late for work!

I did what I think men do all the time when they take us to war: They choose violence because, although they believe it is bad, it is still better than the alternatives. The "just war" theory assumes that human beings get caught in terrible choices all the time. This freedom is not just for men; it is for women also.

This woman really needs to re-read her Aquinas, if she ever read him at all. Just War is justified to prevent a greater evil. She is advocating what she describes as "murder" for what appears to be convenience and about the most shallow utilitarian argument one could imagine. Just War leads to the defeat of evil. Utilitarian arguments about life has lead to the greatest horrors in the history of humanity which occurred over the last 100 years. To equate them is obscene.

It is regrettable when a women blithely exercises her right of "choice" without a second thought. But that problem can be largely addressed through education. It is downright evil when someone makes a calculated and knowing decision that murder of their own child is justified because changing 15 diapers a day is marginally acceptable, but changing 20 a day is cannot be endured.

This is what evil looks like.

142 posted on 02/21/2006 3:51:41 PM PST by gridlock (eliminate perverse incentives)
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To: WhistlingPastTheGraveyard
This is one seriously creepy broad.

You said it, Brother!

143 posted on 02/21/2006 3:54:51 PM PST by gridlock (eliminate perverse incentives)
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To: AD from SpringBay
 I Timothy 3:2  Now the overseer must be above reproach, the husband of but one wife, temperate, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach,

Titus 1:6  (KJ) If any be blameless, the husband of one wife, having faithful children not accused of riot or unruly.  Or NIV:  An elder must be blameless, the husband of but one wife, a man whose children believe and are not open to the charge of being wild and disobedient.

I'm not sure what this has to do with this situation, but thanks anyway.

144 posted on 02/21/2006 4:09:02 PM PST by SuzyQue
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To: SuzyQue

I believe it's referring to her qualification (or lack thereof) to be a minister.


145 posted on 02/21/2006 4:14:44 PM PST by ROLF of the HILL COUNTRY (%28 Terrorism is a symptom, ISLAM IS THE DISEASE!%29)
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To: Neville72
"Because women are mature sexual beings who make choices, birth control and abortion are positive moral forces in history. They allow sex to be both procreational and recreational, for men and for women. That is good news, even though most of the world doesn't know it yet."

Well, thank (something), man-made law supercedes God's law for this woman.

Maybe we'll see her reaction when she meets her murdered offspring at the Great White Throne Judgement.

Methinks she just might not be quite so arrogant and beligerant when that time comes.

146 posted on 02/21/2006 4:51:24 PM PST by nightdriver
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To: Apple Blossom
Oh, I'm sure it's a legitimate church.

(Of Satan...)

147 posted on 02/21/2006 5:27:39 PM PST by hellinahandcart
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To: ROLF of the HILL COUNTRY

Yes, I suspect that that was the intent. These passages just don't work for this purpose.


148 posted on 02/21/2006 5:33:58 PM PST by SuzyQue
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To: SuzyQue
These passages just don't work for this purpose.

Well, for 98% of us, our eyes just glaze over when somebody cites a Biblical passage. We never check, and unless it's a really famous one, we have no idea whether or not it's appropriate.

149 posted on 02/21/2006 6:59:18 PM PST by gridlock (eliminate perverse incentives)
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To: gridlock

I think some people count on that, and just throw references into an argument without enough thought as to their relevance.

Sorry - I usually try to avoid the eye-glazing stuff!


150 posted on 02/21/2006 7:06:40 PM PST by SuzyQue
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To: SuzyQue

Yeah, I should probably check the citations myself. It certainly wouldn't hurt me at all to crack open the Bible from time to time...


151 posted on 02/21/2006 7:07:53 PM PST by gridlock (eliminate perverse incentives)
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To: Pietro
"I know I murdered the life within me. I could have loved that life but chose not to."

There is a verse (I haven't looked it up) that says that in the last days people would be brutish and "without natural affection."

152 posted on 02/21/2006 7:41:17 PM PST by Wilhelm Tell (True or False? This is not a tag line.)
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To: cgk

Thanks for the ping!


153 posted on 02/21/2006 10:04:55 PM PST by Alamo-Girl
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To: hellinahandcart; Apple Blossom

In fairness, they just hired her in January - they may not have known just what an apostate they were getting (they're still loons, though):

http://www.judson.org/searchindex.html


154 posted on 02/22/2006 4:58:59 AM PST by nina0113
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To: nina0113; Apple Blossom

Nah, I spent a little time on the Sermons page. The last one sounded looney-tooney as well.

The church does have a radical history, and it is in the Village, and I don't know why this stuff still surprises me-- but it does.


155 posted on 02/22/2006 5:12:12 AM PST by hellinahandcart
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To: hellinahandcart

Notice how they're getting some repairs done? Shoring up the roof, just in case?


156 posted on 02/22/2006 5:36:25 AM PST by nina0113
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To: Flying Circus

Exactly. Men go to war to do what must be done. She did what was convenient.


157 posted on 02/22/2006 5:40:29 AM PST by gogeo
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To: nina0113

They knew exactly what they were getting. I went through their entire website, they have been doing this for a long time. They have a lecture coming up about "Christian socialism", there is a counter at the bottom of the page of how many have died in Iraq, they seem to think that too many jihadists have died.


158 posted on 02/22/2006 5:45:46 AM PST by wagglebee ("We are ready for the greatest achievements in the history of freedom." -- President Bush, 1/20/05)
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To: fortunecookie
Nobody has the right to directly and deliberately kill an innocent human being, whether in war or in (ha) "the medical practice" (ha, ha) whether by a bomb, abortion, or a baseball bat.

The intentional targeting of innocent persons is a war crime, a damnable ware crime, even in the midst of an otherwise just war.

This woman is right when she equates what she did with murder. It's hellish. Simply hellish.

159 posted on 02/22/2006 11:07:02 AM PST by Mrs. Don-o (Deus Caritas Est)
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To: ROLF of the HILL COUNTRY
You wrote: "I've come to change my belief that human life with a soul begins at conception. Here's why: Identical twins. They start out as one fertilized egg (conception), but that egg doesn't divide until several days later. Since I don't believe a soul divides, the instilling of the souls must come after the egg division."

You're quite right when you say a soul does not "divide," but I am convinced that, upon twinning, a new soul is created as soon as there are two somatically separate beings.

The "soul" means the principle of being a unified, living organism. Plants and animals have souls of a sort inasmuch as they are alive (vegetative and animative souls); but human beings have souls of a higher order, souls which are spirit, because we have capacities which go beyond the physical.

In any case, the identifying characteristic is life: if a given plant, animal or human, at any age or stage, is alive, a soul is by definition present; if it is dead, then a soul is not present. If there are two indentifiably separate beings, there are two souls.

The Bible sometimes uses the word "life" as a synonym for soul, and sometimes uses the word "self." It is incorrect to say that a fertilized egg is only the potential for a child. Actually, every child was a fertilized egg at his or her earlist stage. You were once a fertilized egg; and whose child were you then? Your parents', of course. You were at day one of your life, and so you were at day one of being a child--- not a potential child, but a child WITH POTENTIAL!

A sperm, a speck of skin or a bit of brain may be both human and alive, but it is not a "person" because it is not a unified living organism, and so it does not possess a soul. The earliest embryo of only one cell has the capacity, under the normal circumstances, to develop its own cells, tissues, organs, and systems as an integrated living whole--- sometimes "multiplying," so to speak, to become twins or triplets; but those souls are created, not "split off," even as a mother's soul is not "split off" when she conceives a child.

That inward, dynamic capacity to develop its own organs and systems is how we know that an embryo is ensouled and a sperm or a skin cell is not.

160 posted on 02/22/2006 11:18:38 AM PST by Mrs. Don-o ("I have come that you might have life, and have it more abundantly." -- Jesus Christ)
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