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'First' Suburbs Growing Older and Poorer, Report Warns
New York Times ^ | February 16, 2006 | Bruce Lambert

Posted on 02/20/2006 5:19:12 AM PST by Clemenza

Half a century ago, millions of young white couples left America's central cities for greener places to build homes and rear families. Their move created booming commuter communities and a new way of life.

But that idealized picture has been transformed and the future of those pioneering suburbs is in jeopardy, according to a study issued yesterday by the Brookings Institution, a research group in Washington.

(Excerpt) Read more at nytimes.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Extended News; US: New York
KEYWORDS: longisland; suburbia
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To: peyton randolph

News flash, Randolph: Dallas' suburbs were rotting LONG before DART built the (desperately needed) transit system. Why? Because of the rootless suburban mentality. The cycle runs like this:

1. Urban neighborhood becomes congested with traffic, full of low-wage service businesses, plagued by crime, neon signs, high taxes, and non-white, non- middle-class people. Upper-middle-class whites panic and begin to flee to formerly-rural suburban housing developments to escape traffic, noise, crime, and signs. Mass exodus leads to collapse of neighborhood housing prices. Neighborhood becomes a ghetto.

2. New suburbanites tire of commuting to work via two-lane counry roads, demand that the state build bigger freeways to make their commute easier. Freeways are built. New suburbanites demand big new schools to replace inadequate small-town schools. Schools are built. Traffic, taxes increase in suburb.

3. Suburbanites tire of "driving into town" for daily needs, demand convenient local access to dry cleaning, grocery stores, shops, and fried foods. Service business employing low-wage workers (immigrants, teenagers, black people) move into the suburb to supply those needs. Teenagers, immigrants, black people begin to move into suburb in order to be close to work. Traffic, crime, neon signs in suburb increase.

4. Upper middle-class whites become alarmed at increased traffic, neon, crime, and colored folks in suburb. Responding to demand, developers pave over another rural town, announce new development.

5. Former suburb becomes congested with traffic, full of low-wage service businesses, plagued by crime, neon signs, high taxes, and non-white, non- middle-class people. Upper-middle-class whites panic and begin to flee to formerly-rural suburban housing developments to escape traffic, noise, crime, and signs. Mass exodus leads to collapse of neighborhood housing prices. Former suburb (it never was a neighborhood) becomes a ghetto.

REPEAT

The problem is finding a way to live together in safe, pleasant communities. The solution is not to get rid of public transportation, immigrants, or black people, nor is it to keep moving further and further out. The solution to urban/suburban blight is to destroy the rootless, run-away post-World-War-II mindset and encourage people to stand and fight for their neighborhoods in the cities they live in. The solution is to confront and find ways to mitigate the problems of urban living (hint: mass return to Christian values) instead of paving over more and more landscape in a futile atempt to escape reality.

FYI, I'm East Dallas born and raised, and there was plenty of crime to go around before the light rail line was built. Trains and buses don't create bad neighborhoods; white flight creates bad neighborhoods. In fact, the DART system has proven to be an economic driver in the communities it serves. Why do you think so many area cities (e.g. Denton, Corinth, Lewisville, Flower Mound) are falling all over themselves to get into the DART system?


41 posted on 02/20/2006 5:59:17 AM PST by B-Chan (Catholic. Monarchist. Texan. Any questions?)
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To: peyton randolph
Have alot of family on the Main Line in Philly. The wealthiest suburbs are along that line, always have been, always will be. The Radnor Township police department is notoriously militant about "outsiders" coming in and that keeps crime low.

When they extended the line past West Chester, it had no appreciable effect on the crime rates.

42 posted on 02/20/2006 5:59:18 AM PST by Clemenza (I saw the best minds of my generation destroyed by madness, starving hysterical naked...)
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To: Clemenza

eenwich is obviously in the top .000000000001 percent of wealth. I just could not stand the WASPY C%^&*'s who never worked a day in their lives and acted all better than everyone, the faggy guys with their loafers and blue sport coats with the sweater aeound their neck, and get this . . . . not kidding . . .. a woman I saw in Whole Foods wearing an Equestrian Outfit acting all "proper". What a joke!

I wanted to throw a rear naked choke on every one of these idiots and humble them a bit.

More than anything, I can't stand the men who are sissies and walking ads for Brooks Brothers, yet couldn't change a tire or take on a 15 y/o in a fight if their lives depended on it.


43 posted on 02/20/2006 6:01:00 AM PST by chris1
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To: chris1
Yes, but is the crime rate any worse in Scarsdale, which has a Metro North stop, than it is in Throggs Neck, which doesn't even have a subway stop?

Economics, social class, and effective policing should prevent such problems from happening. As a native New Yorker, you should know the argument that crime is concentrated around public transport stops is B.S., otherwise, the entire metro area would be a crime ridden hellhole. ;-)

44 posted on 02/20/2006 6:02:37 AM PST by Clemenza (I saw the best minds of my generation destroyed by madness, starving hysterical naked...)
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To: chris1

Being from Long Island, and living in South Florida, most of the idle rich I dealt with were JAPpy women who shopped all day at Loehmann's while they dumped their kids on the nanny and their husbands screwed their secretaries. ;-) I think I can deal with effete metrosexuals.


45 posted on 02/20/2006 6:05:03 AM PST by Clemenza (I saw the best minds of my generation destroyed by madness, starving hysterical naked...)
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To: B-Chan
Great post!

One of the key causes of the banality/rapid decay of much of the Sunbelt is NO ZONING LAWS!

46 posted on 02/20/2006 6:06:15 AM PST by Clemenza (I saw the best minds of my generation destroyed by madness, starving hysterical naked...)
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To: E Rocc
The biggest problem in the "inner ring" suburbs isn't even economic class. It's people who refuse to control their kids, and "public interest" lawyers who take their case when they threaten to sue the schools/cops for attempting to do so.

Sounds like you live in Shaker Heights. Well, its still better than Parma or Kent!

47 posted on 02/20/2006 6:07:52 AM PST by Clemenza (I saw the best minds of my generation destroyed by madness, starving hysterical naked...)
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To: Clemenza

Crime does not really go into the interior blocks. Crime off the bus stop and subway stop are mostly muggings, assaults, pursue snatchings, etc.

Additionally, I can handle myself against most people. However, seeing what congregates around the bus stops in the outer bouroghs would make me kind of squeemish were I an elderly person or woman having to walk by.

I just a saw a good movie called "Crash." It touches on a lot of this stuff.

Across from my office, the deli guy, put up huge neon signs saying he accepts WIC and food stamps. He is either Indian or arab, I don't know and don't care. This guy also sells illegal cigs under the counter. I am ready to go rip those signs down as it looks terrible.

To this guy, what does he care? $$$$$$$$$$$ That's it. F everything else.


48 posted on 02/20/2006 6:09:36 AM PST by chris1
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To: Clemenza

Its really sickening isn't it? The materialism is absolutely disgusting. I always ask my Jewish girlfriend how a Jew could drive a Mercedes, BMW, or Porsche. Heck even though I could, I still prefer to drive my Mustang GT and Explorer.


49 posted on 02/20/2006 6:12:07 AM PST by chris1
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To: Clemenza

He also "invented" the department store.


50 posted on 02/20/2006 6:13:14 AM PST by durasell (!)
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To: chris1
Crime does not really go into the interior blocks. Crime off the bus stop and subway stop are mostly muggings, assaults, pursue snatchings, etc.

When I lived at the end of the R line in Bay Ridge, the C.H.U.D. rejects used to come out of the 95th street exit and hang around begging for change or worse. Luckily, said exit was between two bars popular with New York's finest, who would offer said miscreants a trip back to the shelter or to return to the subway.

99% of the time, they would choose the latter.

51 posted on 02/20/2006 6:14:08 AM PST by Clemenza (I saw the best minds of my generation destroyed by madness, starving hysterical naked...)
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To: Clemenza

I always wonder why we can't put these people in the military or give them something productive to do, like paint a bridge or re=pave highways.

It just seems like these are healthy young guys wasting away with nothing to do. Put they gangsta butts to work.LOL


52 posted on 02/20/2006 6:16:34 AM PST by chris1
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To: peyton randolph
From personal experience, I know that in both Philly and D.C. each new bus or rail stop added to the suburbs tends to boost crime in the surrounding areas.

I second that. Although crime was relatively low around my metro stop, it was higher than the surrounding areas except the center of Vienna, Fairfax City, etc. Fairfax county's high density development around Metro stops will make the problem worse 10 years from now, but again it will be relative. nothing like D.C. or even Arlington county.

53 posted on 02/20/2006 6:17:32 AM PST by palmer (Money problems do not come from a lack of money, but from living an excessive, unrealistic lifestyle)
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To: gridlock
Would a farmhouse have a two-car garage?

It doesn't look sixty years old to me.

It's possible that the garage and the three dormers are additions to a much older core (look at the difference in the windows) but the 4 over 4 windows in the dormers are an older style than the windows flanking the front door. And the only chimney is on the garage side - a farmhouse would have more chimneys and more centrally located.

My aunt-in-law still lives in the old family farmhouse built circa 1930 in eastern NJ. It doesn't look like this house at all. And the garage is out back.

54 posted on 02/20/2006 6:17:52 AM PST by AnAmericanMother (Ministrix of Ye Chase, TTGC Ladies' Auxiliary (recess appointment))
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To: durasell; chris1
Speaking of Inner Suburbs, Macy's second store outside of Manhattan was in New Rochelle. They finally knocked it down and I think New Roc City is now in its place. Amazing how the stand-alone department store concept in places like New Rochelle was only viable from the 1930s until the 1950s.

Now a trivia question for Bronxite Chris: Where was Macy's FIRST store outside of Manhattan?

55 posted on 02/20/2006 6:19:13 AM PST by Clemenza (I saw the best minds of my generation destroyed by madness, starving hysterical naked...)
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To: Clemenza

You will love this one!

I went in to the Dunkin Donuts in White Plains. A poor black guy was sitting outside and asked for money. I told him I would give him a donut when I came out, but not money. He said ok. I got the Number 1 which is two donuts and a coffee. Kept the coffee for myself and gave him the two donuts. You know what he said to me, that as$%^&???

"Yo man, I need something to wash this S%^& down!" I told him I was going to F^%^& him up if he did not get away from me.

I never gave a dime or anything to a poor or homeless person again.


56 posted on 02/20/2006 6:19:25 AM PST by chris1
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To: Clemenza

Ohio housing is fairly cheap, too. Of course Texas has better weather.


57 posted on 02/20/2006 6:21:00 AM PST by RockinRight (Attention RNC...we're the party of Reagan, not FDR...)
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To: Clemenza

On the concourse?

Another thing, its truly amazing to see what gorgeous buildings oare on the concourse only to see that Section 8 has destroyed everything around it.


58 posted on 02/20/2006 6:21:27 AM PST by chris1
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To: Clemenza

"New York, Philadelphia, Boston, and Chicago have had subways and commuter lines for over 100 years. The problem doesn't exist in those cities."

New York, Philadelphia, Boston and Chicago are all 'crime clusters' so your argument 'negates' nothing.

"Don't worry. Nobody is going to be building a subway in Montgomery or Mobile anytime soon."

Probably true. There aren't that many idiots in Montgomer or Mobile.

"If you folks want to sit in traffic burning gas and refilling your tank at $60 every two days, be my guest."

Beats sitting in a 'crime cluster cesspool city' masquerading as civilization.


59 posted on 02/20/2006 6:21:41 AM PST by DugwayDuke (Stupidity can be a self-correcting problem.)
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To: AnAmericanMother

That farmhouse was converted to residential use, and was still inhabited by an old lady when I was a child. I know this because a neighbor of mine owned a building around the corner from that old house. Can't remember the exact age, but I know it was an old farmhouse.


60 posted on 02/20/2006 6:22:42 AM PST by Clemenza (I saw the best minds of my generation destroyed by madness, starving hysterical naked...)
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