Posted on 02/17/2006 11:16:14 AM PST by SonofLiberty1
Congress Told of ATF Seizures, Threats to Gun Buyers By Jeff Johnson CNSNews.com Senior Staff Writer February 17, 2006
(CNSNews.com) - Agents of the federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF), allegedly acting without warrants or legislative authority to do so, seized firearms from at least 50 gun show patrons in Virginia according to congressional testimony and an agency document made public Wednesday. Witnesses also testified that African-American and female gun buyers in Richmond, Va., and Pittsburgh, Pa., were profiled based on their race or sex and some in Pittsburgh were threatened with arrest by ATF agents for alleged actions that are not violations of law.
Rep. Howard Coble (R-N.C.) chairs the House Judiciary Subcommittee on Crime, Terrorism and Homeland Security, which has jurisdiction over ATF. While he supports the agency's mission, Coble questions some of its tactics.
"ATF reports that 206 [gun show] participants were stopped and interviewed while it confiscated firearms from another 50 participants," Coble said, referring to gun shows in Richmond, Va. "Although most of the firearms were ultimately returned, the purchasers were notified via official letter from ATF that [they] were ordered to appear at the local ATF office to discuss their transactions. In addition, the letter explained that failure to appear could result in an arrest warrant being issued for the alleged charges."
The form letter had blanks for the name of the gun show patron and the date and time they were ordered to appear at the ATF field office, but cited no authority for the gun confiscations or the mandatory office visits.
"An investigation has revealed that you may have violated Title 18 U.S.C. Section 924(a)(1)(A), a crime punishable by imprisonment for up to five years," the letter began. The U.S. Code citation refers, in this instance, to knowingly making a false statement on the ATF Form 4473 "Firearms Transaction Record Part I - Over-The-Counter," which is completed for each firearm purchased from a federally licensed firearms dealer (FFL).
"The firearm that you purchased is being taken into ATF custody," the letter continued, citing no authority for the seizure.
Rep. Bobby Scott (D-Va.) said the ATF letter and the reported interrogation of lawful gun buyers raise "serious questions."
"There's a way to have a sting operation that's legal. This dragnet, apparent dragnet, however, is not the way it ought to be done," Scott said. "You have to show probable cause and it can be done. But you ought not just stop people without probable cause and without any indication of guilt."
John White, a former law enforcement officer who is now an FFL operating under the business name "The Gunsmith," said female customers who approached his sales area at the Richmond shows were immediately targeted by the "undercover" officers.
"If a woman showed up at my table, she was surrounded by law enforcement," White recalled. "If the lady walked off and suddenly stopped, they would have bumped into each other. Their surveillance methods were pitiful.
"Every woman that makes a purchase, every woman who comes to my table to buy a gun was automatically [treated as] a straw purchaser," White said. (A "straw purchaser" is a person who can otherwise legally purchase a firearm, but who does so with the intent to illegally provide it to an ineligible buyer such as a convicted felon or an illegal alien. "Straw purchases" are illegal.)
As Cybercast News Service initially reported, ATF agents working with as many as 400 state, county and city police officers near Richmond, Va., conducted so-called "residency checks" on individuals who purchased firearms from the Showmasters Gun Show Aug. 13 and 14, 2005. Uniformed officers went to the homes of prospective gun buyers, while they waited for their National Instant Check System (NICS) background checks to be completed and questioned family members and neighbors about the gun buyers' firearm purchasing habits.
In a subsequent report, Cybercast News Service detailed that ATF had conducted at least seven similar gun show "sting operations" targeting Richmond-area residents since July of 2004. ATF refused to discuss any of the operations with Cybercast News Service and refused to provide any documentation in response to Freedom of Information Act requests filed by the sponsors of the Richmond gun shows.
Suzanne McComas, a licensed private investigator who has worked with the America's Most Wanted television program, was hired by the National Rifle Association (NRA) to gather information about ATF's Richmond operations. During her investigation, she learned that the agency had been conducting "residency checks" in at least one other U.S. city, but using different and "much more intimidating" tactics.
"At Pittsburgh, the Firearms Task Force there that's also headed by the ATF, instead of doing residency checks immediately, they're collecting the 4473 with the purchaser's address on it, then they go knock at the door about a week later and ask, 'Could we see the gun that you bought?'" McComas explained. "There's absolutely no process involved, there's no reason for them to do it. If you cannot produce the gun, they ask you for the sale paperwork. If you refuse to produce the paperwork they put you under arrest for a 'straw purchase.'"
Federal law requires licensed gun dealers to complete an ATF Form 4473 for each firearm sold through their business, in addition to any forms required by the state, county and/or city where they do business. Private sales between individuals, who are not engaged in the firearms trade as a business, are subject to no such federal recordkeeping requirements. Therefore a gun show purchaser could legally sell or even give the gun they purchased to someone else yet have no paperwork to meet the ATF's demand.
"You and I know that, but [a woman who bought a gun and then gave or sold it to someone else, both legally] probably doesn't," McComas told Cybercast News Service. "If she can't produce it, they arrest her for a straw purchase and her life turns into a living hell until she can prove otherwise. It's zero probable cause except for the fact that they thought it was a straw purchase because she was black and she was young and she was female."
McComas questioned not only the legality of the ATF tactics in Pittsburgh, but also the methodology.
"When I asked them what their criteria was for the people that they collected the 4473s on at the Pittsburgh show, the answer I got back was, 'If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck it's a duck. That's all we need,'" McComas continued. "Translation: Under 30 and black, period. That's all they were looking for. Anyone who meets those criteria, they're doing a follow-up on."
She said that, as in Richmond, agents in Pittsburgh were also engaged in activities that gun dealers believe were designed to discourage lawful purchases by minorities.
"Anyone who was a minority, they picked up their 'tail,' if you will, and just followed them through the gun show. When they stopped at a table, the agents would literally stand on one side or the other and watch what they were doing. If they started to purchase a gun [the agents] would ask them why they were buying it, what were they buying it for, what did they need that gun for," McComas related. "It was ridiculous. There was absolutely no reason for it other than the color of their skin."
Rep. William Delahunt (D-Mass.) said he had not intended to attend the hearing, which was held immediately after a subcommittee vote on an unrelated bill, but stayed because he was fascinated by the witnesses' testimony.
"These must be the dumbest ATF agents in the entire agency," Delahunt said. "I am absolutely shocked that they could be that stupid.
"It's almost to the point that it's difficult to believe," he added. "I have never heard of an experience like the ones you recount, but you all seem to be in agreement. It's just mind-boggling."
Rep. Tom Feeney (R-Fla.) expressed curiosity that federal law enforcement officers would not know that the actions described by White and McComas violate federal statutes.
"Did anybody mention that it is a federal crime to deny women or minorities their civil rights?" Feeney asked. "Did anybody mention to the ATF that denying civil rights, including the right to bear arms, is a federal crime?"
Feeney suggested that, since ATF had refused to comply with the Freedom of Information Act requests from the gun show promoters, the subcommittee should request the information they were seeking. Coble noted that such a letter had already been sent.
ATF representatives present at Wednesday's hearing reluctantly identified themselves by raising their hands when asked to do so by Coble. They would not respond to the new allegations raised in the hearing, but referred questions to their press office. ATF officials are expected to testify on the issues raised Wednesday in a second hearing scheduled for Feb. 28.
Excellent post BTW... kudos.
Class III is on my list as well. As soon as the unConstitutional '34 NFA, '68 GCA, '86 FOPA, and the '89 Import bans all go the way of the Jim Crow laws.
Ping...
Something needs to be done about the BATFE. They are out of control and apparantly believe that they are above the law.
Hopefully these hearings will generate some serious backlash but I won't hold my breath.
Mike
Somehow "john doe" apearrances and seazures seem to violate some 4th amendment thingy.
This smacks of police pulling over beautiful blonds in red sports cars more often.
(I also wonder if these ATF agents want to "auction" the guns to themselves.)
Actually, they are among the smartest....
which speaks poorly for average ATF agent's IQ. LOL
Actually the Subcommittee on Crime, Terrorism and Homeland Security membership is:
Hon. Coble
Chairman
(R) North Carolina, 6th
Hon. Lungren
(R) California, 3rd
Hon. Green
(R) Wisconsin, 8th
Hon. Feeney
(R) Florida, 24th
Hon. Chabot
(R) Ohio, 1st
Hon. Keller
(R) Florida, 8th
Hon. Flake
(R) Arizona, 6th
Hon. Pence
(R) Indiana, 6th
Hon. Forbes
(R) Virginia, 4th
Hon. Gohmert
(R) Texas, 1st
Hon. Scott
Ranking Member
(D) Virginia, 3rd
Hon. Jackson Lee
(D) Texas, 18th
Hon. Waters
(D) California, 35th
Hon. Meehan
(D) Massachusetts, 5th
Hon. Delahunt
(D) Massachusetts, 10th
Hon. Weiner
(D) New York, 9th
Actually, tell them that they are in violation of the McKlure/Volkmer act. (forgive the spelling).
Part of FOPA was designed to prevent exactly this- "Agents of the federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF), allegedly acting without warrants or legislative authority to do so, seized firearms from at least 50 gun show patrons in Virginia according to congressional testimony and an agency document made public Wednesday."--- from happening.
These agents were in direct violation of FOPA and should be charged with that by the people they harrassed.
On the other hand, I agree with you. I'd refuse to surrender my firearms, I'd cite FOPA then hold out my hands for arrest. They would not like what I would throw at them at all.
Mike
Odd how actual jackboot BATF tactics are less remarked than non-existen patriot act THEORETICAL abbuses.
Ah, thank you! :o)
I don't see how warrantless wire taps (domestic or not) is not an abuse. Also, note that the Patriot Act allowed for warrantless searches of 4473 records of firearms dealers. There are two serious issues that should concern EVERY American greatly. Why our Government is allowed to continue with this crap is beyond me. I wish people would wake up and vote these creeps out of office before they take these "theoretical" abuses to the extreme.
Mike
Here's something of real interest about the ATF.
Subguns.com NFA Firearms Discussion Board
ATF compliance inspections now exclude NFA...
Posted By: Eric M. Larson
Date: 1/17/06 16:07
For the past several weeks, ATF has apparently instructed its Inspectors not to review any NFA records during compliance audits---they are to examine Title I records only. I've heard enough from sources I deem reliable to post this.
What's going on? A number of things. First, I am sure y'all recall the post-Waco phrase: "We don't want Special Agents going around talking or providing information, because we don't want to create any evidence that could be
subpoenaed."
Second, the timing coincides with the public release and posting of the sworn testimony of ATF Inspector George Semoniak (see the "Resources" page at www.nfaoa.org, more specfically: http://www.nfaoa.org/documents/SemonickTestimony.pdf) at the Wrenn trial. Specifically, as the summary posted with this document states: In the case United States vs Wrenn (Cr. No. 1:04-045), District of South Carolina, Aiken Division, ATF Inspector George Semonick testified under
oath that "there was a discrepancy" between firearms records maintained by defendant Wrenn and those maintained in the NFRTR by ATF. Inspector Semonick also confirmed "that the records, the records kept by ATF, were
deficient." Defendant Wrenn was not charged with any record-keeping violations.
Third, I've also heard chatter that ATF suspending record-keeping checks of Class III dealer records on Title II firearms/devices, is a prelude to ATF swooping down and seizing/forfeiting a bunch of NFA firearms/devices. I
strongly believe ATF is NOT going to seize/forfeit any NFA firearms/devicesunder the present conditions because, among other reasons, the NFRTR is under a Congressional microscope at the moment. For ATF to seize/forfeit
any NFA firearms/devices at this time would likely invite further destruction of ATF as an institution.
Note that I said "further destruction." The reason is that ATF is currently doing what the military calls a "damage-limiting operation." ATF is seriously damaged right now, and ATF's top executives are trying to limit that damage.
There are things going on regarding ATF's administration of the NFA that go far beyond and are apart from anything I've posted here regarding the NFRTR. Those things are in progress right now, and I'll leave it to others
who are directly involved in them to comment publicly on them in their own way(s) and time(s).
Finally, as always, I'd like to urge any of you who are concerned about the foregoing or anything else pertaining to the NFRTR, to consider contacting your Congressional representatives. Be sure and request your Congressional representatives to contact Sen. Arlen Specter, Chairman,
Senate Committee on the Judiciary, which is currently involved in matters involving oversight of ATF.
Apparently, a sealed subpoena has been servedby the Committee on ATF. I am endeavoring to find out more details, but think some others who are following this may scoop me, which is OK. There's plenty of information to go around.
Respectfully Submitted,
Eric M. Larson
arsone@starpower.net
Not a problem.
All but one of the politicos instigating this investigation are R's. This wouldn't even be happening under a Rat majority.
Ann Coulter ought to go to one of these shows then write her story.
It is a shopping list for me!
And swine become airborn.
"Every woman that makes a purchase, every woman who comes to my table to buy a gun was automatically [treated as] a straw purchaser," White said. (A "straw purchaser" is a person who can otherwise legally purchase a firearm, but who does so with the intent to illegally provide it to an ineligible buyer such as a convicted felon or an illegal alien. "Straw purchases" are illegal.)
Those b@stards!"
"Oh man, this is just p!ssing me off!..."
Not in defense of ATF tactics, but a little background on why they were doing what they were doing.
In the Pittsburgh area, the big gun show is at the Expo Mart in Monroeville. I attended many of these show. I have friends who are dealers who set up there.
What was happening was some obvious gang members were coming to the show with their ladies. They would all go to tables and look at guns together. A while later the lady who was with them would come back to the table alone and attempt to purchase a handgun.
To the dealers at the tables it was obvious what was going on. The dealers I know refused to sell the guns to the lady as they strongly suspected that she was purchasing the guns the gang members were interested in for them.
The gang members and their babes were all "persons of color".
I guess that explains some of the ATF's actions, but the way the ATF went about things was mostly all wrong.
But I hope I have explained to you why the ATF was taking an interest in things.
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