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AP - If lawyer dies, Cheney could face negligent homicide charges
AP ^ | 2/15/06

Posted on 02/15/2006 1:24:33 PM PST by iPod Shuffle

If lawyer dies, Cheney could face negligent homicide charges

02/15/2006 02:42:17 PM

DALLAS (AP) -- If the man wounded by Dick Cheney dies, the vice president could -- in theory at least -- face criminal charges, even though the shooting was an accident.

Dallas defense attorney David Finn, who has been a state and a federal prosecutor, said Wednesday that a Texas grand jury could bring a charge of criminally negligent homicide if there is evidence the vice president knew or should have known "there was a substantial or unjustifiable risk that his actions would result in him shooting a fellow hunter."

"The risk must be of such a nature and degree that it got to be pretty outrageous -- that a reasonable person would have to say, `I am not pulling the trigger because this other guy might be in front of me,"' Finn said. *

The charge carries up to two years behind bars, but with no previous felonies Cheney would be eligible for probation, the former prosecutor said.

Mark Skurka, first assistant district attorney of the three-county area where the shooting took place, said prosecutors did not have an investigation under way.

"If something unfortunate happens, then we'll decide what to do, then we'll decide whether we're going to have an investigation or not," Skurka said.

Harry Whittington, a 78-year-old lawyer, was struck in the face, neck and chest with shotgun pellets over the weekend while Cheney was shooting at quail. Whittington suffered a mild heart attack Tuesday after a pellet traveled to his heart.

But on Wednesday, hospital officials said he had a normal heart rhythm again and was sitting up in a chair, eating regular food and planned to do some legal work in his hospital room. Doctors said they are highly optimistic he will recover.

In the only other case of someone being shot by a vice president, Aaron Burr was indicted on murder charges in New York and New Jersey for killing Alexander Hamilton in a duel in 1804, but he was never tried and finished out his term in office.


TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: alreadyinbreaking; assholepervadedpress; associatedpress; cheney; cheneyaffair; dnchoping; fingerscrossedatdnc; harrywhittington; hillarylaughing; quailgate
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To: xzins; P-Marlowe
I don't see how it's possible to call that negligence. Cheney did what was expected.

It is clearly civil negligence. Anytime you fire a gun, you are responsible for where it hits. Firearms give strict liability - you are absolutely responsible for what you hit.

Criminal liablity, on the other hand, would be a quite a stretch. An argument could be made, but it's probably a loser.

161 posted on 02/15/2006 7:38:41 PM PST by jude24 ("Thy law is written on the hearts of men, which iniquity itself effaces not." - St. Augustine)
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To: iPod Shuffle
Mike Malloy is calling the woman that talked to the press and ran the ranch where Cheney was, a b$tch and how they were all drunk, etc. Isn't that a reason for the woman to sue Malloy and Err Amerika - she is a private citizen. Sounds liaboulous to me, but I am no attorney. 2/15/06 8:40pm MST
162 posted on 02/15/2006 7:39:37 PM PST by p23185
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To: jude24; xzins
Criminal liablity, on the other hand, would be a quite a stretch. An argument could be made, but it's probably a loser.

On the bar exam you have to make it. But then you also have to explain why it's a loser.

BTW, when are you set to sit?

163 posted on 02/15/2006 7:41:05 PM PST by P-Marlowe
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To: P-Marlowe; xzins
BTW, when are you set to sit?

I still have 2.5 semesters left. (Dang, that felt good to say.) Frankly, I can't wait to get this over with.

164 posted on 02/15/2006 7:50:38 PM PST by jude24 ("Thy law is written on the hearts of men, which iniquity itself effaces not." - St. Augustine)
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To: jude24; P-Marlowe

I continue to think that there was no negligence on Cheney's part SINCE the man hit was part of a team; a participation that carried certain expectations with it.

That mitigates.

Especially, if as I've read, the man was in brush in an area that he as a team memeber knew he should not be occupying. I see no negligence on Cheney's part, if words have any meaning at all.

There is a no fault accident or the other hunter was negligent


165 posted on 02/15/2006 7:54:12 PM PST by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It!)
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To: iPod Shuffle
I see my old colleague Mr. Finn has not lost his love for being quoted in the newspaper.

I see that he has learned nothing from his over-preening during his failed race for Dallas County DA four years ago.

166 posted on 02/15/2006 7:54:40 PM PST by writmeister
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To: jude24

You should go another few years just so you can talk about it in the future.


(Just kidding...we'll be praying for you.)


167 posted on 02/15/2006 7:56:52 PM PST by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It!)
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To: xzins; P-Marlowe
I continue to think that there was no negligence on Cheney's part SINCE the man hit was part of a team; a participation that carried certain expectations with it. That mitigates.

Mitigates, yes. Absolves, no. You're operating under the mistaken assumption that, if the lawyer was at all negligent, it releases Cheney from liability.

In the old days (perhaps Marlowe took the bar under this system?), if the victim's own negligence contributed to his harm, he could not recover for the negligence of the defendant. Today, the plaintiff's award is simply reduced by the amount his negligence contributed to his harms.

In more simple terms, if the lawyer was 25% to blame, and Cheney 75% (numbers which I would consider reasonable), then the civil award would be 75% of the lawyer's damages.

168 posted on 02/15/2006 8:01:19 PM PST by jude24 ("Thy law is written on the hearts of men, which iniquity itself effaces not." - St. Augustine)
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To: MineralMan

A hunting accident, clear and simple; when has anybody EVER been charged when that happens? Of course DUmmies don't know about hunting!


169 posted on 02/15/2006 8:05:42 PM PST by AmericanDave (More COWBELL....................)
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To: xzins
It was the other guy who was negligent, or it was a no-fault accident.

Oh, for cryin' out loud, Cheney has stated the fault is his. You can stop spinning otherwise.

170 posted on 02/15/2006 8:08:36 PM PST by dirtboy (I'm fat, I sleep most of the winter and I saw my shadow yesterday. Does that make me a groundhog?)
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To: dirtboy

I don't care what Cheney says. He's a really decent human being and is overcome by feelings of guilt for having shot a friend.

I'm not spinning at all. See my #157.


171 posted on 02/15/2006 8:12:10 PM PST by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It!)
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To: xzins
I don't care what Cheney says

Gawd, you are comparing military situations to hunting?

Cheney clearly stated where he errored. He's right. Leave it at that instead of trying to perpetuate the erroneous notion that the person pulling the trigger in a hunting accident bears primary responsibility 99 percent of the time.

172 posted on 02/15/2006 8:14:18 PM PST by dirtboy (I'm fat, I sleep most of the winter and I saw my shadow yesterday. Does that make me a groundhog?)
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To: jude24

Jude, it's like football.

The tackle jumps offside before the snap. He is personally and totally responsible. If the q-back uncharacteristically changes the rhythm of his signal calling, then the q-back bears some responsibility for the offside.

The lawyer was offside and got shot for his mistake. In the absence of evidence showing that Cheney participated in the man's mistake, or that Cheney operated other than according to the rules of team hunting, then Cheney is off he hook entirely in my military view of this.



173 posted on 02/15/2006 8:17:21 PM PST by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It!)
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To: dirtboy

At least you realize I'm not spinning. That's good enough for me.

I do think that the team member was at fault. I immediately thought so on my reading of the details of the accident yesterday.

If further info comes out about the incident itself, then I'll gladly change my mind. As it stands, though, were I the prosecutor or the Grand Jury, I'd never let this get out of the chute.


174 posted on 02/15/2006 8:20:59 PM PST by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It!)
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To: jude24
It is possible to suffer injury in a hunting incident that does not rise to the level of actionable negligence. I think there are too many posters betraying their prejudices against firearms and hunting. You can detect the bias because they immediately kneejerk to arguing something akin to strict liability, "If he had the gun in his hand and intentionally pulled the trigger and someone was injured, he's guilty/liable." Only in the eyes of people similarly biased whether against guns/hunting or Dick Cheney, or both.

Someone earlier suggested that res ipsa loquitur would apply, and in a criminal prosecution no less. That is so wrong on so many levels, I wouldn't know where to start. It's a really just another way of trying to warp negligence into strict liability.

Due to the lesser standard of proof, I believe Cheney might be found liable in a civil proceeding for negligently inflicting injury. With a vigorous defense he might beat it, too.

I stand by my earlier assertion that Cheney would not be convicted of negligent manslaughter if Whittington were to die. The higher standard of proof coupled with the fact that the evidence would be heard by a Texas jury persuades me that it would be a quick acquittal, based on the evidence I have been made aware of.

175 posted on 02/15/2006 8:28:15 PM PST by JCEccles
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To: iPod Shuffle

Is there anything in the constitution that requires a homicidal maniac to resign? I don't think so. Wouldn't Congress first have to hold some kind of insanity hearing or something like that?


176 posted on 02/15/2006 8:28:50 PM PST by LibertarianCandidate
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To: jude24; xzins
In the old days (perhaps Marlowe took the bar under this system?), if the victim's own negligence contributed to his harm, he could not recover for the negligence of the defendant. Today, the plaintiff's award is simply reduced by the amount his negligence contributed to his harms.

Anyone interested in judicial legislation and judicial activism needs to read Li V. Yellow Cab. For 104 years California Civil Code section 1714 established contributory negligence as a bar to recovery. Many other states had passed laws which allowed recovery on a contributory basis, but California was dragging its feet and not following the trend. So, instead of waiting for the legislature to act, the California Supreme Court legislated from the bench a law that allowed the negligent party to recover on a contributory basis, a basis which was completely foreign to all legal principles at the time the legislature enacted Civil Code section 1714.

This decision, like Roe v. Wade politicized the judiciary by making it a super legislature. It was a boon to the legal profession, but then what should you expect from a legislature comprised solely of lawyers?

Read it and weep.

177 posted on 02/15/2006 9:26:05 PM PST by P-Marlowe
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To: College Repub

Somebody's gotta win this Powerball. I'll take my chance on the odds.


178 posted on 02/16/2006 2:22:03 AM PST by Ciexyz (Let us always remember, the Lord is in control.)
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To: iPod Shuffle
No doubt the NYT, NBC, and AP have booked all the Voodoo
docs from Haiti.
179 posted on 02/16/2006 2:31:17 AM PST by AlexW (Reporting from Bratislava, Slovakia)
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To: elkfersupper
When I hit the powerball tonight, I will just keep on doing what I have been doing until I use it all up (I mean, it's worked so far and it's all I know).

Time to diversify ...........

When I win Saturday night...........

180 posted on 02/16/2006 6:29:15 AM PST by CROSSHIGHWAYMAN (Toon Town, Iran...........where reality is the real fantasy.)
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