[MeanWestTexan]

Different times, I suppose.

I see boths sides.

The screaming B.S. just annoyed me, it didn't make me a better soldier or teach me to deal with stress. I just bit my tongue and tried to learn.

The recruits now are largely people who are volunteering for combat or at least a strong possibility of the same. They are pretty motivated already.

A certain amount of respect is due for people who are volunteering to make that sacrifice --- even from the SGT.

[Flavius Josephus]

If you lower the standards needed to get through boot camp, you'll get a softer army. Suppose that boot gets captured. Think his captor is going to do his best to see that he meets the terrorist's requirements? The very worst thing you can do for a recruit is to let him go on in the denial that makes him think the rest of the world behaves in the squishy limpwristed manner that the effete west does. The rest of the world pisses on the PC manners of the west, AND the Geneva Convention.

[Night Hides Not]

The screaming B.S. just annoyed me, it didn't make me a better soldier or teach me to deal with stress. I just bit my tongue and tried to learn.

I agree with you completely. During my 4 years at Gonzaga, we had a 4 day spring camp during Easter Break. For the underclassmen, it was 4 days of pure harassment with a bit of training mixed in.

As I progressed from a freshman to a senior, I looked forward to our day in the sun, so to speak. However, a month before our final spring camp, that attitude changed. My classmates and I wanted to leave our mark by running the most professional "Spring Camp" ever. Discipline and training, yes! Harassment, no!

I'm proud of my class for taking that training to a higher level. Our cadet Battalion Cdr, Jason Kamiya, is now a two-star, commanding the Army forces in Afghanistan. Several other classmates made full-bird.

A few years after I graduated, I visited my senior class advisor. On his desk was a picture we took for him at Fort Lewis. The picture consisted of me and three other classmates morosely perched under our "scalps". Haircut standards for ROTC were relaxed in those days, but once we got to Fort Lewis, the Major laid down the law. We took our clippings and put them on large strips of tape, then attached the "scalps" to a poster. It meant a lot to me that this picture was more prominently displayed than his numerous awards.

Me? I finished in the middle of the class, and did 8 years in ADA.

I'm hoping to see most of them at our reunion in June.

[HoustonCurmudgeon]

The screaming B.S. just annoyed me, it didn't make me a better soldier or teach me to deal with stress. I just bit my tongue and tried to learn.

I'm with you to a point. I spent three years in the Army trying to find my DI to kick his ass. His IQ was around room temp and while they turned me into a good soldier, much of what came out of his mouth was pure BS. Several times I had to bite the inside of my mouth to keep from laughing in his face.

[91B]

The screaming B.S. just annoyed me, it didn't make me a better soldier or teach me to deal with stress. I just bit my tongue and tried to learn.

It pretty much struck me the same way. Discipline is different from theatrics and a good deal of the latter was what the worst drill sergeants seemed to specialize in. I always appreciated being talked to more than screamed at (save that for when somebody needs an attitude adjustment).

[yellowdoghunter]

The screaming B.S. just annoyed me, it didn't make me a better soldier or teach me to deal with stress. I just bit my tongue and tried to learn. The recruits now are largely people who are volunteering for combat or at least a strong possibility of the same. They are pretty motivated already. A certain amount of respect is due for people who are volunteering to make that sacrifice --- even from the SGT.

Exactly. I am glad to see this change. These men and women who sign up know it is going to be tough, they should be pushed to perform, but they can do without the screaming and yelling.

[armydoc]

The screaming B.S. just annoyed me, it didn't make me a better soldier or teach me to deal with stress. I just bit my tongue and tried to learn.

And, thus, you were identified by this process as one who can function in an environment of B.S. and stress. Some can't. The Army needs to identify those types early, and weed them out. It needs to know that its soldiers are willing to follow orders screamed at them, without hesitation or complaint. Some people have a real problem with authority, and a screaming drill seargent is just the way to tag them.

[FrankR]

The screaming B.S. just annoyed me, it didn't make me a better soldier or teach me to deal with stress. I just bit my tongue and tried to learn.

To me, your statement is a bit oxymoronic, you dealt with the stress of the yelling by biting your tongue and focusing on learning...so, you learned to deal with the stress - important if you had ever gotten captured by the enemy.


The recruits now are largely people who are volunteering for combat or at least a strong possibility of the same. They are pretty motivated already.

The recruits "now"...what's the difference between now and any other time in history - if we were not already in a war, we knew that war could erupt any moment and we would be sent there. "Now" has nothing to do with anything as far as Military preparedness. WWI & WWI and Vietnam had a lot more loss and a lot more attrocities than what is going on in Iraq.

A certain amount of respect is due for people who are volunteering to make that sacrifice --- even from the SGT.

That Sergeant has earned his respect or he wouldn't be in the position to train new recruits. Also that Sergeant is just as eligible to be shipped to a combat zone as the new recruit is; I really don't see what some little mama's boy who joins up has done to command any respect from the drill sergeant.

Were you one of those who cried during the sharking?

[Terabitten]

The screaming B.S. just annoyed me, it didn't make me a better soldier or teach me to deal with stress. I just bit my tongue and tried to learn.

I worked in an infantry basic training unit at Ft. Benning for two years. The best drill sergeant in my company was also the quietest. He understood that his task was to prepare civilians to become technically and tactically proficient, physically fit infantrymen, ready to take their places in the ranks of the Army -- not to provide great stories about basic training.

He was ridiculously hard on the soldiers, training them to standard, motivating them, and making them want to be a better soldier -- but in two years, I think he raised his voice maybe twice.

There's more to turning civilians into soldiers than yelling and screaming.

[Eagle Eye]

The screaming B.S. just annoyed me, it didn't make me a better soldier or teach me to deal with stress. I just bit my tongue and tried to learn. The recruits now are largely people who are volunteering for combat or at least a strong possibility of the same. They are pretty motivated already.

Well said.

Those who think that harrassment is training are idiots.

However there is still one service reserved for those that need help with self image and motivation by means of screaming and yelling at recruits like they are idiots.

[DariusBane]

I agree. These are not draftees, these are volunteers. A big difference, and one that the army was really struggling with when I went in in 1988, a 19 year old volunteer who wanted to be there. The army at the time was slowly changing the way it treated recruits from the draft model to the volunteer. It was not an easy change. But these guys were not forced to be there by a judge, and were not drafted. We volunteered to become the best soldiers we were capable of. In general we were motivated, trainable, and dedicated to the soldier ideal. The B.S. that was the carry over from involuntarily conforming draftees into soldiers only got in the way IMHO.

[DaiHuy]

My Drill Sergeant very seldom yelled, as a matter of fact he was extremely quiet. But if you screwed up he would make you feel about 2 inches tall without raising his voice, and sometimes he would just give you a look that would freeze saltwater. He also had an affinity for the "dying cockroach" and "front leaning rest" positions.