Posted on 02/15/2006 9:35:13 AM PST by jjm2111
When I got to McClellan in 82, they sent everyone to the "reception center" for 2 days prior to assignment to a permanent company. I kept waiting for the bad stuff, but they were all real nice, which meant we all let our guard down. We found out that was a mistake 2 days later.
That said, the D.I.'s separated out the jerkwads within a day or two, and directed their venom at them while lightening up (sort of) on everyone else.
It pretty much struck me the same way. Discipline is different from theatrics and a good deal of the latter was what the worst drill sergeants seemed to specialize in. I always appreciated being talked to more than screamed at (save that for when somebody needs an attitude adjustment).
bump
Should have done what I did. Go back to the same post exactly a year later as new second lieutenant to take the Officer Basic Course, and then go pay each one a visit.
Actually, we all had a good laugh, but it was nice to hear sir instead of maggot (out loud, at least).
This is BS on a large scale. Keep basic the way it is or make it tougher. Dont "gentle" it down just to getr more people because you will have a lot of softies later on.
Told you not to bet on the Eagles......
typical a#@ kissing officer, playing to a C.O. that is politically connected.. He's punching his PC ticket to the Pentagon or War College for the next step up the rank factory and pension. Gawd, thank you for some semblance of sense in the USMC... but it's getting some of the same types in there as well...
Wouldn't want to be anxious or worried or stress out the recruit....like getting an order to assault a machine gun position.....or clear a building at night during the 20th hour of an operation after you've done it 10-15 times before and gotten shot at..... or dismounting and attacking an ambush in order to retrieve somebody that's gotten blown out of a Humvee....
or the anxiety of watching the first two guys in your squad get hit and having to retrieve, cover and evac them... then turning around and being point.
The Army is going into the hiring mode... the troops have been "blooded" and filler is needed. The carnivores survive, the filler gets chewed up and some retire... the cycle continues. A real big war in Iran will chew the weak ones up and the warriors will continue on with the mission.
I think it's braver to join the Army than the Marines..at least the guys around you are in for the fighting.. In the Marines you're surrounded by warrior ethos and an indoctrination that you are a rifleman first and foremost. You are a weapon. You will adapt and overcome to accomplish your mission. Failure isn't an option, only the success of the mission and the honor of serving with your brothers in the fight. All else is Bullsh#t... There are many types in the USMC like other branches of the service, but it's easy to spot them in forward units,administration, intel, support services etc...
in order to make steel you need fire and pressure....“We must remember that one man is much the same as another, and that he is best who has been trained in the severest school”
Thucydides: History of the Peloponnesian War
This guy will be "popular" back home.... I'll wait and see how popular he'll be after combat operations and the "real stress" of war...not the little BS of somebody yelling at you but the constant fear of getting killed or blown up.
I disagree. I was a complete wimpy nerd in high school, but for some reason I wanted to go into the military. I went to the U.S. Merchant Marine Academy and their boot, called Indocrination or Indoc, was run by the Marine Corp. (I don't know why). We ran twice a day, every day, (except Sunday mornings). We did pushups until we dropped. The midshipmen DI's screamed at us made us put all our clothes on then go into the shower and do pushups in the hot steamy shower in July. This formerly wimpy nerd bulked up and got a lot stronger, etc. The experience changed me quite a bit.
I don't think the military ever forced anyone out. Any weakling or fatbody who really wanted to stay put up with abuse until they could keep up. Once you start keeping up it is a really good feeling.
Hogwash. Case in point, the Army has never admitted, despite the reams of evidence, that their social experiment known as co-ed basic is a mistake. Instead, they perpetuate that mistake, resulting in the dilution and softening of their product. Contrast that with the enhancements the Corps has made to recruit training over the last two decades. despite the plaintive wailing of the Sara Listers of the world, and the fact that every officer is and has been trained as a grunt and it's fairly easy to see that your prediction lacks merit. The CG of either MCRD would have the CO of RTR packing his bags if he attempted to "get rid of the anxiety and worry" like this fool Daly is. Until the Army starts training everyone to be first and foremost an effective trigger puller, crap like this will continue.
I didn't say they should make it easy. I'm just saying they should stop yelling at kids from six inches in front of their noses and scaring off kids who can develop into great soldiers. Use a sensible training program and increase the stress and pressure gradually as recruits learn to deal with greater pressure. That's the way everybody else does training--one step at a time as trainees learn to handle tougher assignments. But don't make it easy. It's tough being a soldier in any job.
The practice of "breaking down" the ego of a recruit has worked well for centuries, and now this Col. thinks he knows better? Right.
Boot camp is classic brain washing. You shock the recruit to erase whatever mode of dealing with other humans he has brought with him, and then fill the washed brain with a new paradigm to deal with his team members. It works. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
When I graduated from basic, I could tell that I was "a different human being". I think that wore off a bit over time and I became more "myself" again. But the current method of training was valuable to filter out those who were not flexible enough to handle it. This Col. is an idiot.
I think observation skills and good judgement are very important to a good DI as some recruits need some guidance and encouragement while others need a kick in the behind. JMHO.
I knew a former DI from the Vietnam Era. He said the yelling was to weed out the "non-Marines" so they could quit and be drafted into the Army. The guys who toughed it out were worthy to be Marines. And yelling was just one of the prongs in the multi-prong approach to weeding out trouble.
That's a good question as to whether anybody worth keeping has ever dropped out of basic training because it was too tough. I don't know the answer, but I think they should stop yelling at recruits from six inches away in the first weeks of training and let people adjust more gradually to stress. That kind of stuff seems stupid to me and there are smarter ways to challenge people physically and mentally that are also more relevant to combat.
Exactly. I am glad to see this change. These men and women who sign up know it is going to be tough, they should be pushed to perform, but they can do without the screaming and yelling.
Just because you personally didn't need it doesn't mean that others did not. For some people, the yelling/harassment is simply too much, and they can't take it. It's best to weed those folks out early on if they can't take that litle bit of pressure. Most, like you, can blow it off. But some can't.
Personally, while quitting never crossed my mind, I did learn to more easily tune out external pressures to concentrate on what I had to get done. That's a useful skill for anyone.
Bottom line, more troops will die with this approach.
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