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To: Atlantic Bridge
The problem is that it would work, but not for all EU-members.

It would work for all if the west would be willing to let free market do its job. Europe doesn't need a superstate, it needs a common free market and some sort of limited "state" that would serve this market. Until the western Europe doesn't get rid of the welfare state and throws the ideology of "social market economy" out of the window this will not be possible.

The problem is not "national foundations". The problem is in economy. You can create a nation only when you have either of the two (and preferably both) things:
1. cultural, religious etc. affinity
2. mutual interests.
We write off the first item so we can only rely on the second: mutual interests.

BTW I don't know why you think that the ties between France, Germany and the Benelux countries are really very close. Maybe from the German point of view it looks like that but I doubt if the French share that point of view. You know, France is like Britain, it has no constant allies, only constant interests. So again it all comes down to economy. Are you sure that French and German economies are so closely tied that no major crisis in intereuropean relations could break those countries apart?

15 posted on 02/10/2006 4:46:10 PM PST by REactor (pozdrowienia z Polski)
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To: REactor
The problem is not "national foundations". The problem is in economy. You can create a nation only when you have either of the two (and preferably both) things:

1. cultural, religious etc. affinity 2. mutual interests.

As a real insider* of the German-French relationship I can tell you that most of the Frogs indeed see cultural affinity between Germany and France. I.e. all of the Alsatian people can speak German since it is their mother tongue no matter if they feel themselves as real Frenchmen or not. Most of the French are fed up with their central gouvernment and would prefer a more federal structure. Therefore the idea of the "Europe of the regions" is something that seems to be extremely "sexy" to them. Espechially to those who move something. Same thing in Germany. We Swabians (Germans from south-west Germany) are totally pi**ed to help people in the German east that are ethnically really completely different (every guy from the Alsace is for sure much closer to me than a "compatriot" from Brandenburg i.e.) with roundabout 1,5 trillion (not billion - trillion) Euros! It would give us the chance to free ourselves from old structures to start something new and better. Something with more capitalism and more freedom. I do not have anything against a blown-up welfare state in the east German "regions" or anywhere else, as long as they pay themselves for it.

This is something that only very few from the "outside" can understand: The capable and effective parts of Germany and France hope to be freed from their national structures. Ask a Bavarian if he feels Bavarian or German. He will tell you: "Mir send mir" (dialect: "We are we" - that means he is a Bavarian and nothing else). The German nation is a artificial product of Prussian Realpolitik that doesn't work anymore. It is a sad truth: Those who bring performance in western Europe are sucked out by a swarm of parasites from the poorer parts. This is not different between Germany and France. Therefore a economical splintering into regions could be the key to a fundamental system change.

Furthermore it is obvious that a confederation of two middle powers like Germany and France plus the Benelux would create a much more powerful "global player" that can defend its interests with more plausibility than in the moment.

I am well aware that many of your compatriots feel such a development as a threat. One thing is for sure - neither Germany or France are a danger to their neighbours anymore. We are healed from our auto-erotic phantasies of world dominance. If such a "confederation" comes true, it will be because of internal reasons and for sure not because of millitary power i.e..

As somebody who is believing into the possibility of a better Europe I think that it is important for Poland to keep all doors open. During the past 40 years we had a fundamental change between the attitudes of Germany and France. This will also be possible with Germany and Poland if the right people are "writing the plot". We have to overcome the faults of the past and have to start building up something new and better. I have to admit that in the moment the biggest deficits in this process are on the German side, since the "Bundesländer" near the Polish boarder are ruled by idiots, but this is no reason not to start every day a new try.

In the current situation this "core" is something that will not be enforceable by democratic means in Poland. I am well aware that the new found national sovereignty is something really precious to Poles. Furthermore the current economic state doesn't allow a membership either. This will change soon and I believe that the cultural affinity will move towards western Europe and in return to Poland (from the western side) which would be no fault. Than you can decide what you want to do or not. You Poles do not have to be a member of such a conferation but you can if you want to.

* My uncle is living near Paris with his French wife and French kids and I am doing lots of business in Alsace-Lorraine.

17 posted on 02/14/2006 12:42:58 AM PST by Atlantic Bridge (O tempora! O mores!)
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To: REactor
Are you sure that French and German economies are so closely tied that no major crisis in intereuropean relations could break those countries apart?

Yep! I believe that. We Germans are completely dependent on the French and they are for sure completely dependent on us. This relationsship is in the moment much more fundamental than anything else in Germany. America is still needed in Germany, but is not in the foreground anymore (BTW - this is something that many in Washington realized and therefore they cool down the relationsship a littelbit). Thank God Merkel is changing to a more friendly verbalism, but that can not cover the changed heading of German politics and economics.

18 posted on 02/14/2006 12:51:59 AM PST by Atlantic Bridge (O tempora! O mores!)
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