Posted on 02/05/2006 12:55:28 PM PST by naturalman1975
STANDARD Islamic prayers in mosques may be illegal under new anti-terror laws, international law specialist Ben Saul told a conference in Melbourne.
Dr Saul said yesterday it could be against the law to pray in Australian mosques for victory for the mujahideen in Iraq.
The conference also discussed the legality of showing training videos recruiting Muslims to fight in Chechnya.
The sedition laws applied only where Australia was at war with a country or group — so training videos for al-Qaeda, the Taliban or Iraq would be illegal. But if the Australian Government had proscribed some Chechen organisations, recruiting for them would be illegal.
Dr Saul, of the University of NSW, said the new sedition law criminalised some things said in a religious context, such as the standard prayer "may God grant victory to the mujahideen in Iraq".
"The legislation is very ambiguous. You don't necessarily have to encourage someone to fight Australian troops — even contributing blankets to mujahideen could be criminal."
Dr Saul told The Age the anti-terrorism laws were an excessive and unjustified over-reaction to the threat Australia faced, and some provisions breached human rights under international law.
"The risk to the US and UK is undoubtedly far greater than the risk to Australia, but we've adopted far more invasive orders. And unlike those countries, we don't have the protection of a bill of rights," he said. People could be subjected to house detention for the 10 years the legislation lasts without ever being charged.
"If one person in a mosque says something outrageous in support of terrorism, these laws allow the government to close down the entire mosque — an extremely disproportionate reaction which collectively punishes every worshipper," Dr Saul said.
He said there was confusion and uncertainty among Muslims about the new laws. Muslim leaders did not know what they could say until they saw how the laws were used.
Precise information about the terrorist threat to Australia had not been made public, so justification for the laws was hard to judge, Dr Saul said.
"Australians are deprived of information and asked to trust political judgements when we know they have been manipulated in the past," he said.
About 70 Muslim leaders and others attended the Darebin conference, which was funded by the Federal Government's Living in Harmony program.
Almighty and most merciful Father, we humbly beseech Thee, of Thy great goodness, to restrain these immoderate rains with which we have had to contend. Grant us fair weather for Battle. Graciously hearken to us as soldiers who call Thee that, armed with Thy power, we may advance from victory to victory, and crush the oppression and wickedness of our enemies, and establish Thy justice among men and nations. Amen.
It looks like Murder Central is going to take a few hits down Australia way!
Honey, pack the bags we're moving to Australia where the have a spine.
Of course they would not know if 'Death to America' or Death to Israel' were legal to say. How could anybody find anything wrong with that?
The Spanish Inqusition did the same thing to Spain's Jews, at the same time, in the same place, for the same reason.
Is it still the "best approach?"
If Jews were lunatic suicide bombers, you're damn right it would be the best approach! 'Course muslim lunatics weren't blowing themselves up in Medieval Spain, but they were knifing innocent men, women and children in their beds.
When praying towards Mecca on a Friday -- in and of itself -- kills someone, then we can talk. Until then, the killing people whose religious faith does not meet the state's standard remains what it always has been: murder.
There's a difference?
C'mon... Don't be silly, praying towards Mecca doesn't kill people. It's all the other murderous activities (like chopping heads, raping babies and throwing them into boiling water) which the typical muj loves to do and teaches his demonic spawn to worship, that kill people. They've been at it for 1,400 years. But now they've run into the big boys, and it's going to stop.
BTW, the Jews were an afterthought; if it hadn't been for the beastly behavior of the ordinary depraved Moor, against which Spain naturally had to defend itself, there never would've been an Inquistion.
Western governments traditionally don't get involved with the content of prayers in houses of worship.
Ahem?!?
Don't insult FReepers' intelligence
To your 2nd and 3rd paragraphs:
I expect you consider yourself a "Right-Thinking American," willing and able to speak on behalf of the people of this great country. However, you dismiss the forced conversion, expulsion and murder of Spain's Jews as "an afterthought" of the Reconquista, even though it happened a decade before the Moors were expelled.
So you're denying history and downplaying the murder of Jews. Sounds more like Ahmadinejad than American.
If your thoughts turn into reality and America becomes proudly moslemsrein (after all, you freely admitted that "the Spanish Inqusition had the best approach"), will you pusue Ferdinand and Isabella's "afterthoughts" of a judenrein nation as well?
part of the nukem all crowd. so what else is new?
I've been away for awhile. Just my way of saying "hi"
"Hi" back at ya!
BTW - You know very well that if we just killed everyone we didn't like, the world would be a better place. ;~ )
I'm never more sure than when I come across postings from the "nuke Mecca" crowd. ;)
Do you have any idea how long the reconquista lasted? Do they teach that at the madrassa? Try 774 years. The Inquistion itself was an afterthought.
I'm not downplaying anything. What happened to Jews and Christian "heretics" during the Inquistion was disgusting.
In fact, Jews were illegal in Spain until 1858. You read that right: illegal. Punishible by death.
You might be able to sweep 340+ years of killing Jews under the rug, but the rest of this forum knows where your true sympathies lie. Once you take care of the "Friday people", killing the "Saturday people" isn't far away. Like you said, after a long and bitter struggle against Muslims, uprooting and murdering hundreds of thousands of Jews isn't too big of a moral leap to make.
The purpose of the Inquisition was to end religious diversity in Ferdinand's Spain, it persecuted both Muslims and Jews with equal ferocity.
Ironically, Moorish Spain became a safe haven for Spanish Jews fleeing persecution.
"...the Jews were an afterthought..."
Hardly, they were the primary target of the Inquisition. Over 200,000 Jews were eventually expelled, many of whom fled to Turkey or North Africa, and tens of thousands died during the expulsion. The expulsion from Spain led to the creation of the Sephardic Jewish community, and was viewed as such a betrayal that Sephardic Jews were forbidden by tradition from ever resettling in Spain.
There were no Jews left in Spain.
"When praying towards Mecca on a Friday -- in and of itself -- kills someone, then we can talk. Until then, the killing people whose religious faith does not meet the state's standard remains what it always has been: murder."
Well said.
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