"Rudy, your smile is much more presidential than Hillary's and you look much better in heels."
Hmmmm. Could use a little lipo on those calves.
Posted on 02/04/2006 4:36:14 PM PST by leadpenny
Rudy is my favorite 2008 candidate. All he would need to do is move to the right slightly, sort of like how Hillary Clinton is trying to move to the right. Only Rudy has a solid background of cleaning up crime and being tough on terror. If President Bush gets to appoint another conservative Supreme Court Justice and puts the Supreme court on conservative lockdown then that won't be an issue.
Rudy probably won't do well with African-Americans but Hillary will get 80% of that vote anyway. Rudy does have to appeal to Conservative christians and I hear he is actively courting them.
I am a conservative pro-life, pro-traditional marriage person and I would vote for Guiliani in a heartbeat.
Someone with pals like Bernie Kerik is someone I would think long and hard before entrusting the powers of the Patriot Act to.
Again, why do you think the mayor of NYC has this awesome credibility on national security issues ?
"And why exactly, should cultural conservatives think they have to settle for a pro gay marriage, pro partial birth abortion, pro illegal immigration cultural liberal in the first place ? Why do you think the Democrats are that invincible ? Why exactly should the GOP think it has to throw away the issues that made it the majority party to 'win' ? Do you think Rockefeller Republicanism is the zeitgeist now ?"
First off, Rudy is NOT pro gay marriage. He is pro gay rights but he does not consider marriage to be one of those rights. As far as illegal immigration goes, can he really do any worse than Bush? I really doubt that. I don't think the Democrats are invincible but I wouldn't underestimate the Clintons, particularly if the the majority of Americans are unhappy with the Bush that is in the White House(See 1992 election). I am not a single issue voter. I feel very strongly that abortion is wrong and immoral. However, I also feel strongly against illegal immigration and deficit spending but that didn't keep me from voting for Bush in 2004 and I doubt it did for you either. I don't know what Rudy will do with border security if he becomes President on 1/20/2009 but it can't be worse than what Bush has done and might even be better. And lets remember than Reagan wasn't perfect in this regard either. He gave amnesty to 3 million illegals in 1986. Rudy is a fiscal conservative and I believe he'll do a better job than Bush at controlling spending. As far as abortion goes, I'm a political realist in this regard. Presidents can't stop abortion. They can nominate SC justices they BELIEVE will unhold abortion restrictions and/or overturn Roe v. Wade but that's about it. If Bush gets to replace Stevens with another conservative, which I believe he will, we may very well have 5 justices that will rule in ways we agree with on abortion cases and thus a potential President Giuliani would have virtually no impact on abortion. And who knows, Rudy has said he supports strict constructionist judges and justices so who knows, the justices he would appoint may be the type we would want ruling on abortion cases. The probably be conservative in other important areas at the least. Of course, NO president can be 100% sure of how his nominee is going to act once on the court. Now lets suppose Bush gets to replace Stevens and Roberts, Scalia, Thomas, Alito, and a possible Steven's replacement overturns Roe a few years from now. Will abortions magically cease? No they won't. The issue will go back to the states where it was pre-Roe. Yes most of the southern states and conservative Rocky Mountain states outlaw abortion but the blue states won't. So abortions will continue to happen. Thus, NO president can stop abortion. The most we can do is try to limit the number. Now going back to 2008. Rudy is the most electable Republican in 2008, especially if he has a pro-life running mate. May I suggest Jeb Bush for this. Rudy has broad appeal among moderates and independents and would probably draw some sane Democrats who are afraid of Hillary or any other far left wacko the Democrats will probably nominate. Rudy would win in a landslide. Let's face it. NO presidential candidate or president is going to be perfect. You'll never going to agree with them 100% of the time. I certainly don't with Bush. However, I proudly voted for him and support him because I agree with him most of the time, he's a very strong leader, and he's tenacious in the most important area and the area the President has the most power, foreign and security affairs and Giuliani is certainly in this category too. With all this in mind, I say Giuliani/Jeb Bush 2008.
I think his administrative skills are whats being mistaken for leadership.
I can't take away his abilities to be a solid administrator, his skills are management and implementation.......i.e. He is Andy Card with a high profile.....thats not leadership.
"I can't take away his abilities to be a solid administrator, his skills are management and implementation.......i.e. He is Andy Card with a high profile.....thats not leadership."
Well, if they way he rallied NYC and really the entire country on 9/11 wasn't leadership, I don't know what is.
Competance.
He did a hell of a job right after 9/11 (I live in NYC).
His leadership skills for the aftermath of 9/11 were solid, but his record is simply, as a great administrator.
Then again, in NYC, we're so used to incompetant politicians, that when someone comes along who is actually able to do the job, they get hero worship.
Sam, n-i-c-e, very nice, take.
Rudy as a Repub contender is a horse-laugh---although Rudy's beating the bushes like crazy looking for supporters. In this Age of the Value Voter, among Rudy's huge liabilities is his personal life. Rudy's love life reads like a sordid tale from an X-rated paperback romance novel.
Rudy was first married to his cousin for 14 years, dumping her when he met Donna Hanover, then had the 14-year marriage annulled telling the Church he didn't "realize" his first wife was his second cousin.
Yeah, sure Rudy.
Mayor Rudy, while a married man and father of two, got involved with his third and present wife, escorting her publicly, and insisted his lover move into Gracie Mansion while he was still married to Donna.
Did we mention Rudy once endorsed a Democrat--Cuomo--over Pataki? And that Rudy looked the other way when his patronage appointee Russell Harding --Liberal Party's Ray Harding's son---was stealing $400,000 from the Housing Development Corp. and enjoying kiddie porn and gay vacations on the taxpayers dime?
In the Understatement of the Year, Sen Trent Lott recently warned that Guiliani's liberal views on abortion, civil unions and gay rights could make it "difficult" for him to win office as a Republican.
Trent forgot to add the Rudy would hunt down every gun, of every type, in every household in the USA and melt them down into scrap metal. Rudy doesn't need a gun. Like all rich liberals, he's got armed guards to protect him.
Rudy's vulnerability is his close relationship with Bernard Kerik. Perhaps Rudy ought to tell voters how he plans to use failed HomeLandSec appointee Bernie Kerik's personal, business and political expertise to help him win public office (poster laughs uproariously).
"Rudy, your smile is much more presidential than Hillary's and you look much better in heels."
Hmmmm. Could use a little lipo on those calves.
I'm disappointed that you choose to dwell on Rudy's past personal life rather than his position on the issues. If we want to play the game of the politics of self-destruction why not talk about Bush the drunk 20 years ago. Do you think that would be fair? I hope not. I'm going to be choosing a candidate on the matters of national security and fiscal responsibility -- not who comes closest to St.Francis in his past personal life.
This is an understatement of such a massive degree.
Rudy, had several affairs during his Hanover marriage.
To his credit, he does talk about them, acknowledge them, and comment on them.
Its assumed that he has been faithfull during his current marraige (whom he met when he was married, she was one of several mistresses).
But no, he did not move his lover into gracie mansion. His wife kicked him out of gracie mansion (this was funny as hell, I had a teacher who worked for Rudy and knew him, some hysterical stuff about that).
Upon being kicked out of his home, he temperorarily moved in with 2 friends, who are gay and were involved in a relationship (yea, Rudy lived with a gay couple).
In the Understatement of the Year, Sen Trent Lott recently warned that Guiliani's liberal views on abortion, civil unions and gay rights could make it "difficult" for him to win office as a Republican.
Trent Lott is actually friends with Rudy and told Novak (who even put the comments in one of his columns) that while he likes Rudy, he doesn't think Rudy can win anywhere, and that Rudys explanation of his social positions, doesn't get voters to understand him, it enrages them.
He did like the fact that Rudy raises money and endorses and campaigns for republicans who are totally opposite Rudys own social positions and have different views from him (this is why you will see Rudy endorsing GOP canidates who are members of the NRA or who oppose gay civil unions).
We won't even going into the whole Kerik or Russel Harding thing, that would take way to much time.
"Rudy, had several affairs during his Hanover marriage."
I have never ever heard this before. I know when things went rocky with Hanover he started dating his current wife but I don't think you're correct with "several affairs". Please show me proof of the "many" occurances. Finally, I would like to say
"Those without sin, cast the first stone"
-Jesus Christ
"Judge not that ye be not judged"
-Apostle Paul
"Rudy, had several affairs during his Hanover marriage."
I have never ever heard this before. I know when things went rocky with Hanover he started dating his current wife but I don't think you're correct with "several affairs". Please show me proof of the "many" occurances. Finally, I would like to say
"Those without sin, cast the first stone"
-Jesus Christ
"Judge not that ye be not judged"
-Apostle Paul
Yep, great to have as our candidate. NOT!
What a person does in private---when he thinks no one is looking ---is far more relevant as a prediction of his future actions, and it is a most resounding commentary on his leadership----much more than the act he puts on for public consumption before the cameras.
This is the age of the Values Voter. A national security candidate is useless without the moral fiber to back it up. Clearly, as we moved toward 9/11, the Nation was put at risk, weakened by the amoral Clintons.
As the disintegration of Western civilization continues, it becomes clearer that straying from our birthright, and the Founders' principles, endangers our freedoms, and our government, and is forcing us to relive the savagery of the past, away from the distinctly American values the Founders envisioned.
Christians have to try harder to protect not only our religious freedoms, but our political freedoms, and our government, as well. Pro-abortion, pro-gay political positions are a deal-breaker for conservatives and indicate a politician is aligned with the forces of Christian-hating.
Politicans must be reminded they will not get the votes of Christians unless they actively get into the fray, and vociferously oppose Christian-hating, anywhere and everywhere Christian-hating surfaces.
A pro-abortion, pro-gay politican labels him/herself as a Christian-hater, and cannot be seriously considered for public office at any level.
I'm actually very surprised you didn't hear that before.
He does acknowledge it.
He endorsed a movie made about his life, that actually notes 2 affairs (it starred james woods).
Judith Nathan, the current wife, was his last mistress, and is the reason Donna hanover kicked rudy out of the house, before her (and also during) he had an affair with his personal aid, There was also his affair with Christine Lategano, not to mention another affair with another staff member which was cited in Hanovers court case and also caused a brief breakup between Rudy and ms. Nathan before they got back together and got married.
Much of this is noted in Hanovers book, but some of his is also noted in another book that was used for the movie "Rudy" (he condemed the book but endorsed the movie, go figure).
No, I knew he started dating his current wife Judith Nathan when things got rocky with Hanover. I just didn't know of any others women in his life around that time. But anyways, its not my job to judge him or any other human beings either. There is only one Judge and lucky He's a forgiving judge if forgiveness is asked. While nobody on this board knows if Giuliani has aknowledged his shortcomings and asked forgiveness for them he certainly could have.
Next time Rudy gets divorced, I think he is going to ask for a change of venue.
As far as I know, and living in NYC, I don't think Rudy has ever made any kind of statement implying regret over his affairs.
The reason I was surprised you didn't know about it, was that in the papers here in NYC, it was frequently mentioned in the gossip columns, right down to pictures of him going to restaurants on dates, he never actually hid any of his relationships.
He also never denied them. He smiles when asked about it and comments happily (he never studied Clinton on how to fake shame).
I can't deny him on the things he is good at that though, he has a great record on cutting spending, reducing taxes, fiscal conservatism, and superb management skills and phenomenal adminstrative abilities, and a good task oriented approach to problem solving.
However, if he runs for national office, his shortcomings, would wreck havoc on him, especially compared to any other potential competitors.
Precisely.
The next time a politician says, "Yes, I was a sleaze but once in the White House I will change", the public will not buy it. The stakes are just too high.
Are the Rudy boosters on this board really thrilled about the idea of Bernie Kerik perusing Patriot Act files ?
I don't think Rudy will get divorced again. I think prostate cancer and 9/11 has changed him for the better. As far issuing statements of regret of past shortcomings, that's not neccessary for salvation. I'm assuming that you're a born-again Christian like myself. I didn't and don't and won't go out in public and private and say "guess what, I sinned and I asked God for forgiveness. It's great isn't it. Now tell me how I'm a great person now". I'm sure you don't either. I don't think his shortcomings will wreck him because everybody has shortcoming and they know it and many believe in redemption and the ability to change, both of which could have already happened to Giuliani.
You are looking at Rudy and seeing what you want to see.
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