Posted on 02/04/2006 7:06:57 AM PST by Gengis Khan
In a rare 'no' to Washington, the Indian Navy has called off the leasing of two US Navy P-3C Orion maritime reconnaissance aircraft (MRA) on grounds they are too expensive.
The 18-24 months it would take the US Navy to retrofit the two aircraft to the Indian Navy specifications once the lease had been finalised also contributed to New Delhi opting out of the deal.
"The lease (of two P-3C Orions) is timed out. It was expensive and time-consuming," a senior Indian official associated with the lease negotiations said.
The US Navy is believed to have demanded Rs8 billion for the lease via the foreign military sales programme.
Fear of US sanctions, like the ones imposed following India's 1998 nuclear tests that led to the Indian Navy's entire Sea King MK42 fleet being grounded due to a shortage of spares, also influenced the navy's decision, officials indicated.
Sanctions on India -- and Pakistan for its nuclear tests -- were lifted in late 2001.
India's P-3C Orion lease was to be a precursor to purchasing eight others to augment its reconnaissance requirements which the navy presently considers "highly inadequate" for anti-piracy operations, narcotics control and to counter natural and ecological disasters like tsunami's or oil and chemical spills.
In anticipation, P-3C Orion manufacturers Lockheed Martin had signed a non-disclosure technical assistance agreement with Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd in Bangalore last year to share export controlled data related to technical and commercial proposals to retrofit the MRAs to the Indian Navy's requirements.
The Indian Navy has now sent out to MRA manufacturers in the US, France, Britain and Russia a request for proposals for the outright purchase of eight MRAs.
These will replace a similar number of Tupolev Tu 142 'Bear Foxtrot' MRAs that are being retired after negotiations with Russia and Israel to retrofit them were called off three years ago.
The Indian Navy confirmed that it was also involved in exploratory talks with Boeing Corp for possible involvement in the P-8A MMA it is developing based on the Boeing 737NG platform.
The Indian Navy believes that the P-8A would match the combined operational profile presently being executed by its existing fleet of Ilyushin Il-38 and Tu 142 MRAs.
It also considers its involvement in the Boeing MMA programme an 'evaluation' and 'test' of Washington's long-term military and strategic commitment to India and a possible counter to possible future sanctions.
Washington considers the Indian Navy a stabilising force in the Indian Ocean region and wants a closer working relationship with it as it straddles the strongest area of strategic convergence: sea-lane protection.
The US is also keen that the Indian Navy, which has a formidable presence in the Indian Ocean region, to officially join the Washington-led proliferation security initiative (PSI) which seeks to interdict vessels suspected of carrying weapons of mass destruction and associated equipment.
Meanwhile, the Indian Navy last month received the first of its five Il-38 MRAs upgraded to the Il-38 SD standard and equipped with the Morskoi Amei (Sea Dragon) radar system compatible with the navy's proposed strategic deterrence.
The remaining four similarly upgraded MRAs will be delivered to the Indian Navy by early next year. Two of these aircraft are replacements being provided by Rosonboronexport for the ones that crashed in October 2002.
Currently, the Indian Navy is dependent on its fleet of around 20 Dornier 228 aircraft and Israeli Searcher Mark II and Heron unmanned aerial vehicles to monitor India's 7,516-km long coastline, 1,197 islands and a two-million sq km exclusive economic zone.
Color me skeptical, but I'm still not convinced that Boeing is going to be able to take what's basically a Boeing BBJ2 airframe (a slightly modified 737-800 jetliner) and make it into a viable maritime recon platform. P-3s were purpose-built for the role, and I understand they're getting very long in the tooth, but is a converted twin-engined jetliner going to have the structural strength for low-altitude cruising, plus the range and mission capability? I guess we'll see.
}:-)4
BTW, P-3's were not purpose-built for MR - they are derivatives of the Electra, an airliner that got a bad rap early in it's life (undeserved, once Lockheed fixed the issues).
Boeing is beating the Lockheed Mafia big-time in India right now; this shift in maritime recon requirements is just another result of sound campaigning by the Boeing marketeers. It has nothing to do with sanctions.
<< "Fear of US sanctions," like the ones imposed following India's 1998 nuclear tests that "led to the Indian Navy's entire Sea King MK42 fleet being grounded" due to a shortage of spares .... >>
Gives the lie to this entire pack of lies.
The sea king is an obselete british [westland] product, not American.
The [Sad but typical] truth about India's cancellation of the Orion deal is that its "military" "negotiators" couldn't screw bribes [Sorry, "extraordinary commissions"] from Lockheed.
Every Russo/Euro-peon/Third World "deal," [Scam] on the other hand, is so top heavy with bribes and kickbacks it's surprising they don't all fall down under the weight of the built-in corruption.
<< Electra, an airliner that got a bad rap early in it's life (undeserved ... >>
Undeserved?
That'll be the day. The bloody wings fell off a batch of them.
That said, I am one of the lucky ones and logged several thousand of my most enjoyable hours flying Electras. A real pilot's aeroplane!
"The [Sad but typical] truth about India's cancellation of the Orion deal is that its "military" "negotiators" couldn't screw bribes [Sorry, "extraordinary commissions"] from Lockheed.
Every Russo/Euro-peon/Third World "deal," [Scam] on the other hand, is so top heavy with bribes and kickbacks it's surprising they don't all fall down under the weight of the built-in corruption."
So you mean Boeing was successful in bribing Indian "negotiators" for th $8 billion USD passenger jets deal?
Nope. But then that deal's negotiators - who to their credit withstood the usual millions of dollars of bribes offered by scAirbus for its inferior product - weren't uniformed bureucrats.
"The [Sad but typical] truth about India's cancellation of the Orion deal is that its "military" "negotiators" couldn't screw bribes [Sorry, "extraordinary commissions"] from Lockheed. "
It isn't anything about bribes and India has plenty of money to buy the P3C Orions (if Pakistan can buy so can we). The "sad truth" here is that India is still uneasy about American propensity for imposition of sanctions (especially on India).
Designed by Sikorsky, built under license, with American components, by Westland.
Actually not. The P-3 is a slightly modified version of the Lockheed Electra airliner.
From Global Security:
The Orion retained the wings, tail unit, basic fuselage structure, power plant, and many subsystems of the Electra, although its fuselage was about 7 ft. shorter than the Electra’s..
What you say about sanctions is at best a little overwrought and at best a not particularly honest exaggeration.
But even if what you say was true, India is a major league player, isn't it?
So if you really believe your own bluster, just impose some sanctions of your own.
"Reverse sanctions," if you like.
That'll show us Americans a thing or two!
Or might, if life was a popularity contest and/or we were engaged in the zero sum game that you guys and Peking's predators depend on in order that all y'all may one day soon "catch us up" and "overtake our economy" and become "super-er powers."
"At best and at best, eh?"
Oh well. Could have been worst, I suppose?
"But even if what you say was true, India is a major league player, isn't it?
So if you really believe your own bluster, just impose some sanctions of your own.
"Reverse sanctions," if you like.
I think we did just that (by not buying). We just threw around a little of our weight as a "major league player" being the worlds largest buyer of arms (beaten the UAE last year).
<< Old man! Didn't know you were that insecure! >>
Tsk tsk Gengis, Old Boy: Just when we of the Civilized World begin to believe there is a remote chance that you and perhaps an equally-hesperophobic handful of your fellow denizens of the depths of the Dark Side might emerge into the Light, your Pathological Projection Syndrome is seen to be showing again.
And plunge you back into the medieval third world squalor from which you must first emerge if you would catch hold of even the dead-center rear of the shirt tails of Judeo-Christian/Western/Human superiority.
Be sure, though, that I and millions like me are praying for you. And that hundreds of our Missionaties are moving among you even as we speak. To bring you to the Light.
<]:^)~<
Blessings FRom your brother, Brian
<< .... the worlds largest buyer of arms .... >>
Dream On.
You may well keep saying that and if you say it often enough may even convince yourself it's not a delusional fantasy.
But even given another several hundred years or so of chapati bake sales, you cannot make it true.
At 18 Billion Dollars India's TOTAL military budget barely edged out relatively-tiny Australia's around 17 Billion. As a percentage of GDP India places 47th in the world insofar as military spending is concerned.
We Americans, meanwhile, not only spend more money on arms than all of the rest of the world's states added together but, at around a Half Trillion Dollars, the American People give more after-tax money to domestic and international aid and charities than way more than half of the world's state's gross domestic products. More, even, than the entire world's total non-United States military spending.
Yes India is the worlds largest buyer or let me reword that as worlds largest importer of arms for the benefit of your ageing soul. Had no idea that little nano-brain of yours and whatever little is left of it after a life time of rigor has been rendered useless and incapable of interperting my post in the correct sense. Could have save FR some of the human feces that you just discharged.
"Tsk tsk Gengis, Old Boy: Just when we of the Civilized World begin to believe there is a remote chance that you and perhaps an equally-hesperophobic handful of your fellow denizens of the depths of the Dark Side might emerge into the Light, your Pathological Projection Syndrome is seen to be showing again.
And plunge you back into the medieval third world squalor from which you must first emerge if you would catch hold of even the dead-center rear of the shirt tails of Judeo-Christian/Western/Human superiority. "
See old man how nicely ,efficiently and in the most undignifying manner you have laid out all you fears, your insecurity, imbecility and not to mention idiocy in full public view open to public scrutiny sympathetic, charitable or otherwise.
"Be sure, though, that I and millions like me are praying for you. And that hundreds of our Missionaties are moving among you even as we speak. To bring you to the Light. "
And also do pray for me that I be saved not by the missionaries but from the missionaries.
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