Gun-toting motorists more prone to road rage (Banglist Barf Alert)

New Scientist ^ | 3 feb 06 | Anon

[Smokin' Joe]

This guy is a flippin' moron. If I am using my hand to make obscene gestures, then I am not drawing my gun. D'oh!

If you were to cut me off and not see the fickle finger of fate giving you that "you're number one" salute, then it might be time to worry...

[ccmay]

I wonder if they're including criminals in their numbers.

Of course they are. And they are also including everybody in states that allow vehicle carry with no license. This has practically nothing to do with concealed weapons permit holders, who as a class are among the most law-abiding citizens in the country. I suspect their results would have been quite far in the opposite direction if they had surveyed only CCW permittees.

-ccm

[Richard05]

John Lott has a discussion of this at:
http://johnrlott.tripod.com/2006/02/research-on-guns-and-road-rage.html

[OXENinFLA]

http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/hicrc/Firearms.htm

[harrowup]

This study is way short of credibility both as to source and method.

A random survey of drivers would prove my father's comment on the subject more than 60 years ago while riding with him to LGA...

"Son, you may wonder why cab drivers in NYC are so aggressive and the simple answer is the Sullivan law..." (said law the very same that prevented me from legally owning a BB gun).

Rude tough guys already carry big sticks...and they are the ones who now have to consider their safety.

I say allow stickers on your vehicle which state,

Polite, Sane, and Armed

[The Electrician]

I particularly like the part of Lott's article where he mentions that one result of the study could be used to justify preventing liberals from driving (using the same logic that the study used with gun owners)...

[Panzerlied]

"If the story were true we would have many incidents of Concealed Carry Holders involved in incidents. This has not happened. What does happen is violent crime goes down when a state passes a concealed carry law.

The author has printed a bogus survey!"

My thoughts exactly! As a retired scientist, I'd love to examine their paper to see how they did this research.

[AmericanMade1776]

I Doubt David Hemenway and his Harvard pals really were able to find many carriers of Guns in cars in Massachusetts.

Having Lived in Massachusetts for 20 years( thankfully not there now), I saw many rude gestures from drivers and I am almost sure they were not carrying guns in their cars. First of all, to carry a gun in your car in Massachusetts, you have to have a permit, and to get a permit, you have to have never committed a felon or even a misdemeanor. You have to take a class in gun safety, be fingerprinted by your local police and intense security check into your background by law enforcement.

By the way, I had a license to carry a concealed weapon in Massachusetts, and never ever even carried a gun in my car or on my person in the state. Did I make rude gestures while driving??? Maybe, but not because I had a gun in my possession. HA!

[AmericanMade1776]

David Hemenway

David Hemenway: 'Our key goal is to try to build a society where it is safe for teenagers, so nobody wants to carry a gun.' (Staff photos by Jon Chase) http://www.news.harvard.edu/gazette/2002/10.31/09-guns.html

[JTHomes]

Lot's of bias potential. What if men are more likely to carry a gun than women and men are also more likely to rage? Could turn out that male gun owners are less likely than men in general to rage.

[AmericanMade1776]

David Hemenway on the left. Come to think of it, I think I once saw this guy on the Massachusetts Turnpike, he made a rude gesture to me, as he cut me off to use the toll to get off on the Cambridge exit. HA!

[Clemenza]

A survey of 2400 drivers carried out by David Hemenway and his colleagues at the Harvard School of Public Health shows that motorists who carry guns in their cars are far more likely to indulge in road rage - driving aggressively or making obscene gestures - than motorists without guns.

Driving aggressively = NOT driving like a girl.

I was driving aggressively and making obscene gestures long before I started carrying firearms.

[JTHomes]

Speaking for myself, when I carry, I tend to be more alert and controled in my actions and thoughts. Also more confident and secure, so I'm more likely to blow off (so to speak) any unsocial behavior I encounter.

[OXENinFLA]

No agenda there!!

---

BTW

http://johnrlott.tripod.com/2006/02/research-on-guns-and-road-rage.html

[Panzerlied]

Here's a quote from one their other investigations:

"Recent gun owners were 8 times more likely to have threatened their partners with a gun than non-gun owners."

"Batterers' Use of Guns to Threaten Intimate Partners" Journal of the American Medical Women's Association, 2005; 60:62-68. Abstract | PDF

Well...duh! Guess if I didn't own a gun (knife, axe, hammer, and so on) I couldn't threaten anyone with it.

[AmericanMade1776]

The paper is based on a survey of 2,400 drivers that the authors did. The survey asked respondents if they had made an obscene gesture to an opposing driver or whether they had aggressively followed another car. After that a series of descriptive questions were asked: gender, age, income, political views, urban/rural, and whether they have had a gun in their car at least one time over the last year. The authors make a simple comparison between those who have had a gun at least once in their car and those who didn't and say that the respective numbers are 23% and 16%. The authors imply that having a gun makes it more likely that one will engage in road rage.

There are multiple concerns with this analyis. There is not attempt to differentiate whether the person who had the gun in the car had it legally or not. No attempt to determine whether they had a gun when the rage occurred. While one regression with a few very basic variables was apparently run (but not shown), no explanation was offered for why such a limited set of control variables were used (e.g., why not trouble with law enforcement, education, income, smoker, race). Trouble with law enforcement (past arrests) would have been obvious (though it would have been even better if they had asked whether the person had convictions for felonies (I wonder why they didn't include that question)).

[Supernatural]

More propaganda from the press.

[manglor]

motorists who carry guns in their cars are far more likely to indulge in road rage - driving aggressively or making obscene gestures - than motorists without guns.

The stats are cooked up. Notice they don't say Concealed Handgun Permit holders are more likely to road rage. They just say motorists with guns. That includes gang members, drug smugglers, car jackers, police officers, drunken rednecks with shotguns in their pickup's rack, and a few CCW permit holders.

They are comparing apples to oranges. If they compare the rates of road rage by CCW permit holders vs the general population I'm willing to bet money it will tell a different story.

[Toadman]

"In the interests of injury and violence prevention, it probably makes more sense to tighten rather than relax restrictions on gun carrying in motor vehicles."

ABSOLUTELY! Crips, Bloods, all gangbangers, carjackers endorse this statement.

Let's see... I imagine the percentage of gun toters vice non-toters would be proportional to the type A personalities vice non type A personalites.

In other words they got the conclusion they were looking for and their test is bovine scatology (unless they wish to prevent type A personalities from getting driver licences).

[Old Professer]

First, less than 1% of all drivers have guns in the vehicle; second, the survey study is notoriously similar to the push/pull polling technique in that the questions are designed to elicit responses where none may otherwise be forthcoming.