French Mirage pulled out of dogfight for IAF deal (French fighter pulled out of Indian deal)

CNN - IBN news ^ | 02.02.06

[sukhoi-30mki]

New Delhi: The dogfight for bagging the Indian order for 126 fighter aircraft has taken a sensational twist. The front-runner, the French Mirage 2000, has pulled out, complaining that India is taking too much time to make up its mind.

[sukhoi-30mki]

While the Mirage-2000 has been an excellent aircraft in Indian service,the Mirage-2005 being offered for this contract just doesn't measure up to the other competitors like F/A-18 E/F & Mig-35 or even Dassault's own Rafale.

[son of caesar]

question, you have to go fight in the skies. which plane do you want? id take the f-18 or the mig. the migs are good aircraft, make no mistake about it.

[sukhoi-30mki]

Mirage-20005 PING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Irishguy]

i just cannot accept these 2 words in the same sentence

french and fighter....

[lowbuck]

Sorta like "military and intelligence"!!! LOL

It would be nice to have the IAF operate US equipment! As a nation they are undergoing rapid change and growth and in my lifetime will join the "big players" on the world stage. I hope we continue to develop warm relations with India.

[Mind-numbed Robot]

The article desn't mention the MIG-35. It says MIG-29.

The line-up of contenders includes Russia's MiG-29, Sweden's Gripen and America's F-16.

The F-18 and the British Typhoon are the new entries.

[sukhoi-30mki]

The Russians are supposedly offering a new variant of the Fulcrum,equipped with thrust vectoring engines & an AESA radar,which they call the Mig-35.

Russia to field latest N-capable MiG-35 in India tender

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1467979/posts

[voice of india]

HAL TEJAS

The Indian Light Combat Aircraft(LCA) is the world's smallest, light weight, multi-role combat aircraft designed to meet the requirements of Indian Air Force as its frontline multi-mission single-seat tactical aircraft to replace the MiG-21 series of aircraft. It is configured to carry indigenous ASTRA medium range air-to-air missile, close combat missiles and an integral 23 mm cannon. It has also been equipped with electronic counter-counter measure(ECCM) devices developed by the Advanced System Integration and Evaluation Organisation.The LCA design has been configured to match the demands of modern combat scenario such as speed, acceleration, maneuverability and agility. Short takeoff and landing, excellent flight performance, safety, reliability and maintainability, are salient features of LCA design. The LCA integrates modern design concepts like static instability, digital fly-by-wire flight control system, integrated avionics, glass cockpit, primary composite structure, multi-mode radar, microprocessor based utility and brake management systems. Hindustan Aeronautics Limited(HAL) is the Principal Partner in the design and fabrication of LCA and its integration leading to flight testing. The LCA has been designed and developed by a consortium of five aircraft research, design, production and product support organizations pooled by the Bangalore-based Aeronautical Development Agency(ADA), under Department of Defense Research and Development Organization(DRDO).


Powerplant: (prototype) one 80.50 kN (18,100 lb st) General Electric F404-F2J3 turbofan or (production) one 89.86 kN (20,200 lb st) GTRE GTX-35VS Kaveri turbofan Dimensions: length 13.20m (43 ft 9 in); height 4.40m (14 ft 7 in); wing span 8.20m (26 ft 7 in) Weights: empty 5500 kg (12,125 lb) ; Max Take-Off Weight 12500 kg (27,560 lb) Performance: max level speed at 11.000m (36,000 ft) Mach 1.8 or 1920 km/h (1195 mph); service ceiling 15,250 m (50,000 ft) Armament: one 23-mm GSh-23 twin-barrel cannon with 220 rounds per gun; up to 4000 kg (8,820 lb) of ordnance, including AAMs, ASMs, Anti-Ship Missiles, rocket launchers, bombs, ECM pods, and drop tanks, carried on seven external statio

[son of caesar]

i do not dismiss indias indigenous engineering in any way. however, the topic referred to f=18s and the mig 29. the hal tejas is meant as a replacement for the mig 21.
imo, if the hal tejas meets an f-18 or mig 29 in combat, it should light burners and run. it would be outclassed badly.

[Thermalseeker]

That thing must have one hell of a radar signature......

[BadAndy]

I thought delta wing fighters went out in the 50's.

[sukhoi-30mki]

Barring the US,many other countries still use & develop Delta-wing designs.

[1rudeboy]

Fair enough, but imagine you're a grunt in Afghanistan in need of close air support. I doubt you'd care who responds.

[Gengis Khan]

I would prefer to see the Rafael or the Mig35 in the IAF inventory.

[spetznaz]

This is very interesting. It basically shuffles the deck completely since the M2K-5 was always the leading contender (India even got a couple from Qatar). For all intents and purposes the M2K-5 was getting this deal, and now it is not even in the running.

Wow!

Who do you think will win the contract? Any ideas? What is the response from the Indian gov.?

Did you see this coming?

[sukhoi-30mki]

Actually,the Qataris put off the sale of their aircraft when India asked for a further price reduction.Not sure what's happened since then.The only new Mirages that joined the IAF did so about 2 years ago,which were D models purchased directly from Dassault.

The fact is that the Americans are increasingly enticing India & Bush needs something to show his home constituency some positive Indian response(in addition to possible convergence on Iran) to let the Nuclear energy deal go forward.While Indian support on Iran would be a diplomatic victory for the US,it is of little use for corporate America!!Hence I personally think that a 2 aircraft purchase is likely,with one American system & one another(either Russian or French).I say 2 aircraft because a lot of internet articles have indicated a possible increase in size of the contract(to about 200 aircraft).If the Mirage-2005 is the only French offering,I think the Russian Mig-35 will be preferred.Esp since the French companies are likely to get contracts for maritime helos for the navy & utility choppers for the army
(about 80 each),in addition to a quick reaction SAM system.Russian companies are not a big factor in any of those competitons,so there is scope for compensation here!!

About the Mirage dropping out.I wouldn't say that this is the end of the French connection.This would possibly be armtwisting,since such things are legendary in arms purchases.

'MiGs to go, to make way for MRCs'

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/1392232.cms

Notice that the Airforce dude says aircraft being purchased from the US & Russia.Not that it may mean a lot!!

[spetznaz]

Good points. Although to be honest I am still quite surprised about what happened to the M2K-5 ....I had even stopped following the whole decision process since in all aspects it had seemed that the M2K-5 had already won. It goes to show the whole thing about counting chickens has some merit to it, huh!

Anyways, the whole US-Russia mix seems interesting. A mix of F-18 or 16s with MiG-35 super-Fulcrums .....that should be a very good mix, which should (together with the SU-30MKIs and the Phalcon AWACs) make the Pakistani airforce think twice about even taking off, and also make China cool their enthusiasm a bit.

[Cronos]

having closer ties benefits both countries -- India is getting increasingly westernised -- even the Muslims in India

[voice of india]

I thought delta wing fighters went out in the 50's Several aircraft appeared in the 1980s and 1990s that incorporated both delta wings and canards. The latest delta-wing aircraft are the Swedish JAS 39 Grippen, the Dassault Rafale naval fighter (designed to be launched from the French aircraft carrier Charles de Gaulle), the Indian Light Combat Aircraft, or LCA, and the Eurofighter Typhoon. The Typhoon, which had its first flight in the mid-1990s, is a joint European effort (Britain, Germany, Italy and Spain, with France withdrawing early) to develop an advanced fighter to replace a number of different aging aircraft in their air forces. Thus, the delta wing, which seemed destined for obsolescence, has gained a new lease on life.

[BadAndy]

"Thus, the delta wing, which seemed destined for obsolescence, has gained a new lease on life."

I assume that there were performance limitations on delta wing fighters that caused them to be abandoned by the US and Russian military. What has changed?