Posted on 02/01/2006 9:11:41 AM PST by george76
San Juan Biodiesel Cooperative tests alternate-fuel supply
The San Juan Biodiesel Cooperative wants to know if anyone is interested in a biodiesel facility in the Four Corners.
SJBC mailed surveys to farmers and crop growers in hopes of garnering more enthusiasm for a facility.
“Questions are geared toward determining growers’ interest in raising sunflower and canola,”...
other queries from the survey include whether assistance would be needed for crop storage, anticipated yields of individual farms, and whether farmers would be interested in becoming part owners of a potential biodiesel facility ...
Biodiesel is a nonpetroleum fuel made from refined vegetable oils or animal fats.
When purchased at the pump, the fuel is generally a mix of 20 percent pure biodiesel and 80 percent regular diesel.
the Four States Agricultural Exposition...
(Excerpt) Read more at cortezjournal.com ...
I'll laugh if they build this and won't build any other refineries, and no matter what they call the stuff, it is essentially a refiniery they will be constructing. (Nothing against biodiesel)
If the subsidy is big enough, hell, I'll do it too !!!!!
Correct.
Biodiesel works economically because it is proped up by subsidies.
I would suspect the energy put in to creating it is much higher than a comparable fossil diesel.
But such things to get better with scale, and we, unlike the rest of the world, have a darn lot of farmland in this country that is under-utilized.
First question:
If we subsidize you with 5 gallons of fuel to create 4, will you do it?
I'm not sure about that. Biodiesel is essentially vegetable oil, and cheap vegetable oil is less expensive per gallon than diesel.
I haven't studied the economics of it all, but on the surface, it looks like biodiesel is cheaper than petroleum diesel fuel. There are other drawbacks, of course, but I don't think price is one of them.
If we have to initially subsidize the development and get it up to scale, then I am in complete favor of doing so. I'd love to see our American farmers be the one to drive a stake into the pig heart of the muslim oil producers. Oh, and let's drill ANWR to pay off the subsidies !!!
> Biodiesel is essentially vegetable oil, and cheap
> vegetable oil is less expensive per gallon than diesel.
... particularly food oil or oilseed that would otherwise
be wasted. However, the subsidies tell us that the economics
aren't there, and I understand that we can't produce enough
oilseed (without impairing food supply) to make much of a
contribution to supply, nor make much more than a token
guesture towards Mid-East oil independence.
I'd be happy to run cheap DB in my VW TDI, but not if it's
cheap because my taxes are more-than-equivalently higher
to pay for that "savings".
> If we subsidize you with 5 gallons of fuel to create 4, will you do it?
Put another way ... does an acre of oilseed ground produce
enough DB to run the tractor that produces that crop?
Not to mention the fuel needed to get the seed processed
and redistributed.
This is the way things should be done. Individual farmers can easily make biodiesel out of vegetable oil, but it's much more efficient to make it in a cooperative.
Biodiesel is a great idea, it's just too bad it's mainly associated with hippie tree-huggers. Besides, put a bit of lye and methanol into some veggie oil and you get back glycerine, good for making soap, blowing stuff up (especially yourself if you're stupid enough to try to make nitroglycerine) and a bunch of other things. The cooperative can make some extra money selling off the glycerine.
Biodiesel. 20 to 30 cent @ gallon extra. Freight companies will not make the switch in the name of conservation alone. Their competitors will gladly maintain their freight rates and surcharges while using low sulfur diesel.
First, the references to "Biodiesel" always infer that it's a TOTAL replacement for petroleum-based fuel.
Pulled this quote from http://www.biodiesel.org/
"..........Most major engine companies have stated formally that the use of blends up to B20 will not void their parts and workmanship warranties. This includes blends below 20% biodiesel, such as the 2% biodiesel blends that are becoming more common."
The last time I looked, there were TWO suppliers within a six-hour drive of my home where I could get the 2% "biodiesel" (at a fashionably increased cost per gallon).
This is supposed to be an immediate, economically viable substitute for petroleum-based diesel?
I'll try my PowerStroke out on wishful thinking like this for a while, if you promise to come get me with a tow truck.
It can be, it's just not in most forms at the pump.
The last time I looked, there were TWO suppliers within a six-hour drive of my home where I could get the 2% "biodiesel" (at a fashionably increased cost per gallon).
The 2% biodiesel won't help with emissions much, but that small quantity added does provide the needed internal lubrication for your modern diesel when running straight low-sulphur petrodiesel. Higher concentrations will also clean out your fuel lines if you've previously been running pure petrodiesel. Of course, that means you might have a short-term problem with clogged fuel filters if you make the switch as the filters catch all the junk the biodiesel cleans out. Also, the alcohol in biodiesel gives it that solvent power, but it also eats at natural rubber. You're okay if you have a newer engine with synthetic fuel lines and gaskets, but be careful with high concentrations of biodiesel in older engines.
Other plusses: almost completely non-toxic and has a much higher flash point than petrodiesel, making it vastly safer to handle and store.
This is supposed to be an immediate, economically viable substitute for petroleum-based diesel?
The main problem now is economy of scale, but unlike ethanol it's pretty easy and cheap to make, and it produces more energy than it takes to make it. Basically, just blend 20% methanol (very cheap alcohol) and some lye or potassium hydroxide, and you get biodiesel and glycerine. As a plus, you can sell-off the glycerine.
But the most messed up thing about biodiesel is that even it can't please the environuts. They object to the large amounts of farming land that would be required to sustain large-scale biodiesel operations. There's just no pleasing some idiots.
I'll try my PowerStroke out on wishful thinking like this for a while, if you promise to come get me with a tow truck.
Ford doesn't recommend above 5% biodiesel, although people have run it fine with synthetic lines and gaskets. Also, a PowerStroke conversion to straight vegetable oil with a 40-gallon tank costs about $2,000 (you use petrodiesel to start, then switch to oil, then switch back before shutting down). It's probably worth that plus about $1,000 for a high-speed garage filter system if you drive a lot and you can convince your local fish-fry to give you all its waste oil.
BTW, I'm not trying to say you should convert like some eco-weenie would, but looking into it can't hurt. The end decision is of course solely yours (until the government gets in on this).
Again I congratulate you on a nice post.
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