Posted on 02/01/2006 8:26:30 AM PST by Smogger
CHINO, Calif. - A videotape released Tuesday shows a sheriffs deputy shooting an unarmed Air Force policeman who recently returned from Iraq as he appeared to obey an order to get up off the ground.
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'Get up' Carrion is heard telling the officer he is unarmed and is in the military.
At one point, a voice is heard saying several times: Get up.
Carrion says: Im gonna get up. As he rises, at least four shots are fired and Carrion collapses, crying out in pain.
Shots fired! Shots fired! someone shouts.
In a telephone interview conducted in Spanish, Valdez said after the shooting, Carrion asks the deputy, Why did you shoot me if you told me to stand up? That alleged exchange cannot be heard on the video.
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(Excerpt) Read more at msnbc.msn.com ...
Having said all that, it seems like a situation where the cop should have used phyisical restraint rather than deadly force. Can LEO Freepers comment on that?
They don't. Here in Texas they tend to relax when they determine you have a CHL, whether you are then armed or not. CHL holders have very low rates of criminal behavior, after all they've been through a background check. Probably multiple times when they bought firearms, but at least when they applied for the CHL.
Even if you just watch occassionly as I do, you still see countless examples of several cops YELLING don't move, get down, hands on head all at the same time.
At 100MPH plus it would take a minute or three at least to catch up. At that point other officers including shift Super would be responding also both behind him and in front predicting his forward route. His radio traffic may tell the whole story. If I understand it right this was inside a city and not like back-up was on the other end of the county.
Evidently enough time lapsed to chase and stop the car as well as order the occupants out face down. If an officer knew his backup was in route and he was the only officer on scene I would think he would rather have them lying face down until he had help on scene.
The only reason to have him stand would be to search.....If there is a high risk threat, and probable cause, you wait for backup (depending on the location and situation), then command the suspect to lie prone for a high risk search. If it's a low risk situation, and you decide to search, then he has to stand for a cursory search or for a field interview.
I can't figure for the life of me unless he intended on shooting the person why ask him to stand then shoot.
If the officer responded to a 911 call from a third party, then the officer's adrenalin will be pumping.....I had that happen to me....:). I was parked across from a hotel in another parking lot. I was with a "friend", we were fogging the windows..:) and the asshole at the hotel (I figure), called a 911. I didn't know that at the time. The big big policeman ordered me out of the car, step away, blah blah blah.....with his pistol (15 rounds) drawn. His search technique was the worse I've seen...I actually called the office the next day and complained that his technique was hazardous. I taught searching techniques to cops and security personnel....With a 911, he should of had me prone or against the car....he just reached over and patted my pockets within 1 foot.....
Anyway, if the cop in the video approached with his weapon drawn, then he must have felt threatened...then you tell the suspect to go prone until backup arrives. If the weapon was not drawn, then something of a threat must trigger the officer to exit the zone while drawing his weapon.......giving commands for the suspect not to move or go prone....not just shoot.....
This is a strange case.......a study of the training system is also in order....
I watched the video.....cops are pumped after a high speed chase and some may get wacked out....I think he fired in anger because of the chase......He asked him to move, giving some justification for "I thought he was going for a weapon"......one does have to be there, as we are sideline quarterbacks.......but it doesn't look good for the cop....bad shoot.
Jose Ruiz, the Chino man who videotaped the incident, said he is also disturbed by what he saw Sunday night. He ran outside his home with a video camera with the intent of filming the aftermath of a car crash late Sunday. What unfolded instead is something he says has kept him awake and uneasy.
"I've never seen that in my life. I haven't slept in more than two days. My daughter hasn't gone to school in two days. I haven't gone to work in two days," he said. Ruiz played a copy of the video tape to reporters at his Chino home Tuesday.
The tape, which is dark and only shows a silhouette of the deputy and Carrion on the ground, does capture some dialogue between Carrion and the deputy. "He said, 'I'm in the military. Believe me, I don't have a gun,' " Ruiz recalled him saying. The deputy, with his gun drawn, said, "All right, get up, get up."
As the man began to rise with his back facing the deputy, the deputy fired three shots. The man fell back to the ground and began screaming in pain. The deputy then called on his radio, "Shots fired, shots fired."
Ruiz said he immediately turned a tape over to the Sheriff's Department after the incident, but he has retained an attorney because of incidents that have happened since then. Luis Carrillo, a South Pasadena attorney, said he's helping Ruiz to make sure his rights are not violated. Carrillo said over a 12-hour period after the video tape was handed over to deputies, Ruiz was pulled over three times by officers. "His whole vehicle gets searched. It was totally unnecessary," Carrillo said. Staff writer Wendy Leung contributed to this story.
Next time try using the flashers. It acknowledges you are aware of him. A cop can not legally in any state I know of force you to pull over under unsafe circumstances especially at night. Policemen have been taught to honor flashers as an "I will stop when I feel it is safe for me to do so" confirmation by the driver. The driver could be a women looking for an exit and an open store.
I taught my daughters never pull over for blue lights at night until you are in a safe enviroment near others. Use the flashers. This is written policy in most law enforcement agencies. There are too many blue light wannabee's out these and some have the occupation of rapist. Any officer not honoring a reduced speed and flashers needs at a minimum being placed on report.
Wrong. Attempted murder means that he attempted to murder the man. If you can honestly defend what this deputy did, then you are hopeless. I'm not anti-cop by any means. They do a necessary and very difficult job. But I've also seen some of the "good ole' boy" behaviour that some percentage of them can engage in. This incident was captured on videotape. Not all of them are. Power corrupts; cops aren't exempt from this univeral truth just because they're cops.
Thanks....that's a great tip. I figured that my going slowly in front of him was enough for him to know I wasn't looking to evade him, but next time I'll know better. It still doesn't warrant him anger, IMHO.
"Don't GET UP" is a very poor choice of words, and if he was not getting up WHY repeat the command? Fishy.....
You need your hearing checked...
There's good and bad cops. My father in law was a combination of Barney Fife and a sadist. Bad combination especially when badge is added. His gross mismanagement & his own physical abuse of prisoners in a penal farm he ran led to one of the biggest man hunts in my states history decades ago. My wife was a young girl at the time and saw a lot of prisoner abuse by him because they lived at the penal farm.
Tone, demeanor and appearance is everything. As a fairly unthreatening-appearing woman, I've never had a cop get nervous when I have declared a weapon. Usually, I might add, because they've asked, based on my CWP that would have been flagged when they called my info in.
I believe its even lawful to drive to some well lit public place - I know here on long island, we have had many incidents of imposter police officers pulling people over and robbing them - and the real police advise driving to a gas station or something.
but how do you communicate that intention to the police car behind you?
You faced a pretty unusual situation.
Not a lot in actual numbers, IMHO, but one is too many.
I've never been a police officer but I worked as a security guard. It wasn't a career choice, just a job with hours I needed and they were hiring at the time and my kids were at home wanting to eat. I was not one of those cop wannabes that go into security work because they couldn't (thankfully) make it through the selection process.
Most LEO's would treat me like a brother officer and talk openly. Many quickly earned my respect. One treated me like I was no better than your average potential perp on the street (i.e. civilian), and one other I was convinced was actually looking forward to shooting someone. This last I am glad to report was Mcmanaging, last I heard.
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