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Discovery's Creation [The rise & fall of the Discovery Institute]
Seattle Weekly ^ | 01 February 2006 | Roger Downey

Posted on 02/01/2006 6:32:25 AM PST by PatrickHenry

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To: Aquinasfan; Right Wing Professor

Oh no, not the debunked "list of 400" again....

Anybody still have the links to shoot this one down?


261 posted on 02/02/2006 6:52:02 AM PST by highball ("I never should have switched from scotch to martinis." -- the last words of Humphrey Bogart)
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To: Syncretic
You can quibble about it, but I think that the message that the public picks up from the Darwinists is clear: "No miracles. Never was and never will be a miracle. Miracles are for morons. The Church's claims about miracles are all frauds."

That's what's known as "projection"

263 posted on 02/02/2006 7:18:33 AM PST by highball ("I never should have switched from scotch to martinis." -- the last words of Humphrey Bogart)
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Comment #264 Removed by Moderator

To: Junior
Willful ignorance is Biblical...
 
It appears that you are RIGHT!!
 
 
 
 

NIV 1 Corinthians 15:34
   Come back to your senses as you ought, and stop sinning; for there are some who are ignorant of God--I say this to your shame.
 

NIV Exodus 9:21
   But those who ignored the word of the LORD left their slaves and livestock in the field.
 

NIV Deuteronomy 22:1
  If you see your brother's ox or sheep straying, do not ignore it but be sure to take it back to him.
   Do the same if you find your brother's donkey or his cloak or anything he loses. Do not ignore it.
 

NIV Psalms 73:22
   I was senseless and ignorant; I was a brute beast before you.
 

NIV Psalms 119:139
  My zeal wears me out, for my enemies ignore your words.
 

NIV Proverbs 1:24-33
 24.  But since you rejected me when I called and no one gave heed when I stretched out my hand,
 25.  since you ignored all my advice and would not accept my rebuke,
 26.  I in turn will laugh at your disaster; I will mock when calamity overtakes you--
 27.  when calamity overtakes you like a storm, when disaster sweeps over you like a whirlwind, when distress and trouble overwhelm you.
 28.  "Then they will call to me but I will not answer; they will look for me but will not find me.
 29.  Since they hated knowledge and did not choose to fear the LORD,
 30.  since they would not accept my advice and spurned my rebuke,
 31.  they will eat the fruit of their ways and be filled with the fruit of their schemes.
 32.  For the waywardness of the simple will kill them, and the complacency of fools will destroy them;
 33.  but whoever listens to me will live in safety and be at ease, without fear of harm."
 

NIV Proverbs 8:33
  Listen to my instruction and be wise; do not ignore it.
 

NIV Proverbs 10:17
   He who heeds discipline shows the way to life, but whoever ignores correction leads others astray.
 

NIV Proverbs 13:18
   He who ignores discipline comes to poverty and shame, but whoever heeds correction is honored.
 
 
 
NIV Proverbs 15:32
   He who ignores discipline despises himself, but whoever heeds correction gains understanding.
 

NIV Proverbs 30:2-3
 2.  "I am the most ignorant of men; I do not have a man's understanding.
 3.  I have not learned wisdom, nor have I knowledge of the Holy One.
 

NIV Isaiah 45:20
   "Gather together and come; assemble, you fugitives from the nations. Ignorant are those who carry about idols of wood, who pray to gods that cannot save.
 

NIV Hosea 4:6
   my people are destroyed from lack of knowledge. "Because you have rejected knowledge, I also reject you as my priests; because you have ignored the law of your God, I also will ignore your children.
 

NIV Acts 3:17-18
 17.  "Now, brothers, I know that you acted in ignorance, as did your leaders.
 18.  But this is how God fulfilled what he had foretold through all the prophets, saying that his Christ  would suffer.
 

NIV Acts 17:30
   In the past God overlooked such ignorance, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent.
 

NIV Romans 11:25
   I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers, so that you may not be conceited: Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full number of the Gentiles has come in.
 

NIV 1 Corinthians 10:1
  For I do not want you to be ignorant of the fact, brothers, that our forefathers were all under the cloud and that they all passed through the sea.
 

NIV 1 Corinthians 12:1
   Now about spiritual gifts, brothers, I do not want you to be ignorant.
 

NIV 1 Corinthians 14:37-38
 37.  If anybody thinks he is a prophet or spiritually gifted, let him acknowledge that what I am writing to you is the Lord's command.
 38.  If he ignores this, he himself will be ignored.
 
 

NIV Ephesians 4:18
   They are darkened in their understanding and separated from the life of God because of the ignorance that is in them due to the hardening of their hearts.
 

NIV 1 Timothy 1:13
  Even though I was once a blasphemer and a persecutor and a violent man, I was shown mercy because I acted in ignorance and unbelief.
 

NIV Hebrews 2:2-3
 2.  For if the message spoken by angels was binding, and every violation and disobedience received its just punishment,
 3.  how shall we escape if we ignore such a great salvation? This salvation, which was first announced by the Lord, was confirmed to us by those who heard him.
 

NIV Hebrews 5:2
  He is able to deal gently with those who are ignorant and are going astray, since he himself is subject to weakness.
 

NIV 1 Peter 1:14
   As obedient children, do not conform to the evil desires you had when you lived in ignorance.
 

NIV 2 Peter 3:16
   He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction.

265 posted on 02/02/2006 7:31:58 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going....)
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To: Aquinasfan
Most are not in academe. Few are in biology. Some have asked to be removed from the list.

In contrast, Project Steve just added Steve number 698!

266 posted on 02/02/2006 7:34:07 AM PST by Right Wing Professor (When your mind's made up, nothing's more confusing than lots and lots and lots of Steves.)
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To: Oztrich Boy; Junior
...the wilfully ignorant ...

Hey Junner!!

I found your long lost brother!!!

267 posted on 02/02/2006 7:34:25 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going....)
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To: Right Wing Professor
Google has ruined the joy of posting in a foreign language,

What!?

The Appearance of Great Knowledge has now gotten it's veil ripped??

268 posted on 02/02/2006 7:35:42 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going....)
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To: shuckmaster
Exactly! That's why there are so many different species.
154 posted on 02/01/2006 6:08:08 PM CST by shuckmaster (An oak tree is an acorns way of making more acorns)
 
 
 
Make up yer mind!!

269 posted on 02/02/2006 7:37:42 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going....)
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To: narby
That's only because you don't have an answer for his posts.

HMmmm...

"The bible writers were ignorant men"

270 posted on 02/02/2006 7:39:16 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going....)
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To: microgood
If evolutionists even stated that because we do not know everything that happened in the past, some parts of the theory will never be known for sure would at least be a start.

"Never show weakness!"

271 posted on 02/02/2006 7:40:51 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going....)
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To: Right Wing Professor
The evolution of behavior in ants is discussed in Sociobiology. You should read it. It's a classic.

A moving example of living ROM's.

272 posted on 02/02/2006 7:42:07 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going....)
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To: Syncretic
So are you saying that Darwinists do believe in miracles?

Of course most "Darwinists" (if there were such a thing) believe in miracles. Most scientists are Christians, after all.

Scientists just don't confuse the possibility of miracles with actual physical evidence that those miracles happened.

And a follow up question if I may: If Darwinists do believe in miracles, why are they so openly hostile to Intelligent Design proponents who are basically just saying that life was created miraculously by a Designer?

Because ID proponents pretend that such an assertion is scientific in nature. It isn't, unless you're willing to re-define the word "science" (as is Dr. Behe, the leading proponent of ID) to include such pursuits as astrology.

Words mean things. We should fight PC attempts to change those meanings wherever they appear.

273 posted on 02/02/2006 7:43:40 AM PST by highball ("I never should have switched from scotch to martinis." -- the last words of Humphrey Bogart)
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To: andysandmikesmom

Works for me!


274 posted on 02/02/2006 7:46:11 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going....)
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To: dread78645
"Beware the man of one book" placemark

"Beware the Man of the Book" placemark

275 posted on 02/02/2006 7:48:34 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going....)
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To: Elsie
The Appearance of Great Knowledge has now gotten it's veil ripped?

More like, no one knows you're a dog on the internet. Although I dispute that; usually dogs reveal themselves in a few posts.

276 posted on 02/02/2006 8:00:10 AM PST by Right Wing Professor (When your mind's made up, nothing's more confusing than lots and lots and lots of Steves.)
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To: unlearner
Efficient coding by the Designer. Reusability. Wise planning which took into consideration interdependence within organisms and the ecosystem.

Oh good. I'm glad we've dispensed with the scientific facade. Godidit.

What you don't know, however, is that the Designer (u.c.!) did it last Thursday, and simply designed you with memories to think that you existed earlier.

277 posted on 02/02/2006 8:02:58 AM PST by Right Wing Professor (When your mind's made up, nothing's more confusing than lots and lots and lots of Steves.)
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To: PatrickHenry
How does intelligent design differ in any significant way from earlier attempts to avoid conflict with the Second Amendment prohibition of state-supported or countenanced religion?

The NRA will be very surprised at this interpretation of the Second Amendment.

278 posted on 02/02/2006 8:13:21 AM PST by RogueIsland
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To: unlearner
"The genetic codes of organisms make no sense unless there is common descent."

Then they are not subject to being falsified. You are unwilling to be wrong and therefore confuse dogma with science.

Yeah, thanks for lecturing me on science, a field that despite 80 or so published papers, I'm totally ignorant about. You've published how many? Several hundred or so?

You think that because ribosomal 16S/23S yields a single phylogenetic tree, its common descent can't be falsified? So if we found an entirely separate and distinct tree, that wouldn't be falsification?

So it's the regularities that prove UCD... oh, except when there are irregularities, then that proves UCD.

No one said or even implied the latter. You've started lying: you must be getting desperate.

The scientifically correct way to state this is that UCD leads us to predictions of gene and protein sequences which are confirmed by testing. The question is whether other possibilities are supported by the same predictions. A correlation between structure and gene sequences, or a correlation between function and gene sequences hardly amounts to UCD being essential. It could just as easily support common design

No. We can always come up with multiple hypotheses consistent with any body of data, last Thursdayism being the most universal. The fact that you can hypothesize an all-powerful being that, because of said being's omnipotence, can explain anything, doesn't mean you have another scientific explanation. You've merely got another explanation.

You could claim to already have your doctorate in molecular biology. The difference is that I know my friend. I don't know you. (And you don't know me.)

My regular web page is linked on my profile.

Here's my (somewhat outdated) web page and publication list, at a University of Nebraska domain name. Here's my blog. If you dispute I'm the author of them, send me an innocuous phrase by FReepmail, and I'll include it in the latter. Alternatively, I'll update the c.v. up to any publication number less than 83 that you request.

279 posted on 02/02/2006 8:17:28 AM PST by Right Wing Professor (When your mind's made up, nothing's more confusing than lots and lots and lots of Steves.)
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To: Syncretic
"No miracles. Never was and never will be a miracle. Miracles are for morons. The Church's claims about miracles are all frauds."

HMmmm...

 

Kinda undercuts the whole of the Scriptures; eh?



NIV John 2:11
   This, the first of his miraculous signs, Jesus performed at Cana in Galilee. He thus revealed his glory, and his disciples put their faith in him.
 
 
NIV John 4:47-54
 47.  When this man heard that Jesus had arrived in Galilee from Judea, he went to him and begged him to come and heal his son, who was close to death.
 48.  "Unless you people see miraculous signs and wonders," Jesus told him, "you will never believe."
 49.  The royal official said, "Sir, come down before my child dies."
 50.  Jesus replied, "You may go. Your son will live."   The man took Jesus at his word and departed.
 51.  While he was still on the way, his servants met him with the news that his boy was living.
 52.  When he inquired as to the time when his son got better, they said to him, "The fever left him yesterday at the seventh hour."
 53.  Then the father realized that this was the exact time at which Jesus had said to him, "Your son will live." So he and all his household believed.
 54.  This was the second miraculous sign that Jesus performed, having come from Judea to Galilee.
 

NIV John 2:23
   Now while he was in Jerusalem at the Passover Feast, many people saw the miraculous signs he was doing and believed in his name.
 

NIV John 3:2
   He came to Jesus at night and said, "Rabbi, we know you are a teacher who has come from God. For no one could perform the miraculous signs you are doing if God were not with him."
 
 
NIV Matthew 11:20-25
 20.  Then Jesus began to denounce the cities in which most of his miracles had been performed, because they did not repent.
 21.  "Woe to you, Korazin! Woe to you, Bethsaida! If the miracles that were performed in you had been performed in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes.
 22.  But I tell you, it will be more bearable for Tyre and Sidon on the day of judgment than for you.
 23.  And you, Capernaum, will you be lifted up to the skies? No, you will go down to the depths.  If the miracles that were performed in you had been performed in Sodom, it would have remained to this day.
 24.  But I tell you that it will be more bearable for Sodom on the day of judgment than for you."
 25.  At that time Jesus said, "I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children.
 
 
 
NIV Mark 6:1-6
 1.  Jesus left there and went to his hometown, accompanied by his disciples.
 2.  When the Sabbath came, he began to teach in the synagogue, and many who heard him were amazed.   "Where did this man get these things?" they asked. "What's this wisdom that has been given him, that he even does miracles!
 3.  Isn't this the carpenter? Isn't this Mary's son and the brother of James, Joseph, Judas and Simon? Aren't his sisters here with us?" And they took offense at him.
 4.  Jesus said to them, "Only in his hometown, among his relatives and in his own house is a prophet without honor."
 5.  He could not do any miracles there, except lay his hands on a few sick people and heal them.
 6.  And he was amazed at their lack of faith.   Then Jesus went around teaching from village to village.
 

NIV Mark 9:39-40
 39.  "Do not stop him," Jesus said. "No one who does a miracle in my name can in the next moment say anything bad about me, 
 40.  for whoever is not against us is for us.
 

NIV Luke 19:37-38
 37.  When he came near the place where the road goes down the Mount of Olives, the whole crowd of disciples began joyfully to praise God in loud voices for all the miracles they had seen:
 38.  "Blessed is the king who comes in the name of the Lord!" "Peace in heaven and glory in the highest!"
 

NIV Luke 23:8
   When Herod saw Jesus, he was greatly pleased, because for a long time he had been wanting to see him. From what he had heard about him, he hoped to see him perform some miracle.
 
 
NIV John 6:1-2
 1.  Some time after this, Jesus crossed to the far shore of the Sea of Galilee (that is, the Sea of Tiberias),
 2.  and a great crowd of people followed him because they saw the miraculous signs he had performed on the sick.
 

NIV John 6:14
   After the people saw the miraculous sign that Jesus did, they began to say, "Surely this is the Prophet who is to come into the world."
 

NIV John 7:3-5
 3.  Jesus' brothers said to him, "You ought to leave here and go to Judea, so that your disciples may see the miracles you do.
 4.  No one who wants to become a public figure acts in secret. Since you are doing these things, show yourself to the world."
 5.  For even his own brothers did not believe in him.
 

NIV John 7:21
   Jesus said to them, "I did one miracle, and you are all astonished.
 

NIV John 7:31
   Still, many in the crowd put their faith in him. They said, "When the Christ comes, will he do more miraculous signs than this man?"
 

NIV John 9:16
 16.  Some of the Pharisees said, "This man is not from God, for he does not keep the Sabbath."   But others asked, "How can a sinner do such miraculous signs?" So they were divided.
 
 

NIV John 10:25-26
 25.  Jesus answered, "I did tell you, but you do not believe. The miracles I do in my Father's name speak for me,
 26.  but you do not believe because you are not my sheep.
 

NIV John 10:31-32
 31.  Again the Jews picked up stones to stone him,
 32.  but Jesus said to them, "I have shown you many great miracles from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?"
 

NIV John 10:37-38
 37.  Do not believe me unless I do what my Father does.
 38.  But if I do it, even though you do not believe me, believe the miracles, that you may know and understand that the Father is in me, and I in the Father."
 

NIV John 11:47
   Then the chief priests and the Pharisees called a meeting of the Sanhedrin.   "What are we accomplishing?" they asked. "Here is this man performing many miraculous signs.
 

NIV John 12:37
   Even after Jesus had done all these miraculous signs in their presence, they still would not believe in him.
 

NIV John 14:11
   Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of the miracles themselves.
 

NIV John 20:30
   Jesus did many other miraculous signs in the presence of his disciples, which are not recorded in this book.
 

NIV Acts 2:22
   "Men of Israel, listen to this: Jesus of Nazareth was a man accredited by God to you by miracles, wonders and signs, which God did among you through him, as you yourselves know.
 

NIV Acts 2:43
   Everyone was filled with awe, and many wonders and miraculous signs were done by the apostles.
 

NIV Acts 4:16
   "What are we going to do with these men?" they asked. "Everybody living in Jerusalem knows they have done an outstanding miracle, and we cannot deny it.
 

NIV Acts 4:22
   For the man who was miraculously healed was over forty years old.
 

NIV Acts 5:12
   The apostles performed many miraculous signs and wonders among the people. And all the believers used to meet together in Solomon's Colonnade.
 

NIV Acts 6:8
   Now Stephen, a man full of God's grace and power, did great wonders and miraculous signs among the people.
 

NIV Acts 8:6
  When the crowds heard Philip and saw the miraculous signs he did, they all paid close attention to what he said.
 

NIV Acts 8:13
   Simon himself believed and was baptized. And he followed Philip everywhere, astonished by the great signs and miracles he saw.
 

NIV Acts 14:3
   So Paul and Barnabas spent considerable time there, speaking boldly for the Lord, who confirmed the message of his grace by enabling them to do miraculous signs and wonders.
 
 
NIV Acts 15:12
   The whole assembly became silent as they listened to Barnabas and Paul telling about the miraculous signs and wonders God had done among the Gentiles through them.
 

NIV Acts 19:11-12
 11.  God did extraordinary miracles through Paul,
 12.  so that even handkerchiefs and aprons that had touched him were taken to the sick, and their illnesses were cured and the evil spirits left them.
 

NIV Romans 15:18-19
 18.  I will not venture to speak of anything except what Christ has accomplished through me in leading the Gentiles to obey God by what I have said and done--
 19.  by the power of signs and miracles, through the power of the Spirit. So from Jerusalem all the way around to Illyricum, I have fully proclaimed the gospel of Christ.
 

NIV 1 Corinthians 1:22-24
 22.  Jews demand miraculous signs and Greeks look for wisdom,
 23.  but we preach Christ crucified: a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles,
 24.  but to those whom God has called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God.
 

NIV 1 Corinthians 12:7-11
 7.  Now to each one the manifestation of the Spirit is given for the common good.
 8.  To one there is given through the Spirit the message of wisdom, to another the message of knowledge by means of the same Spirit,
 9.  to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by that one Spirit,
 10.  to another miraculous powers, to another prophecy, to another distinguishing between spirits, to another speaking in different kinds of tongues,  and to still another the interpretation of tongues.
 11.  All these are the work of one and the same Spirit, and he gives them to each one, just as he determines.
 

NIV 1 Corinthians 12:28-31
28.  And in the church God has appointed first of all apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then workers of miracles, also those having gifts of healing, those able to help others, those with gifts of administration, and those speaking in different kinds of tongues.
 29.  Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Do all work miracles?
 30.  Do all have gifts of healing? Do all speak in tongues ? Do all interpret?
 31.  But eagerly desire  the greater gifts.   And now I will show you the most excellent way.
 
 
 
NIV 2 Corinthians 12:12
   The things that mark an apostle--signs, wonders and miracles--were done among you with great perseverance.
 

NIV Galatians 3:5
   Does God give you his Spirit and work miracles among you because you observe the law, or because you believe what you heard?
 

NIV Hebrews 2:4
   God also testified to it by signs, wonders and various miracles, and gifts of the Holy Spirit distributed according to his will.

280 posted on 02/02/2006 8:18:19 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going....)
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