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Discovery's Creation [The rise & fall of the Discovery Institute]
Seattle Weekly ^ | 01 February 2006 | Roger Downey

Posted on 02/01/2006 6:32:25 AM PST by PatrickHenry

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Mind-melding for dummies placemarker.


161 posted on 02/01/2006 4:19:38 PM PST by shuckmaster (An oak tree is an acorns way of making more acorns)
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To: atlaw

How about this discussion on 'precedent? I think my comments regarding precedent fall well within this discussion. please note the there is no implication that a decision of one trial court is binding on another trial court; i.e., the opinion of one us District Court Judge is not binding on another US District Court Judge.

PRECEDENT - Legal principle, created by a court decision, which provides an example or authority for judges deciding similar issues later. Generally, decisions of higher courts (within a particular system of courts) are mandatory precedent on lower courts within that system--that is, the principle announced by a higher court must be followed in later cases. For example, the California Supreme Court decision that unmarried people who live together may enter into cohabitation agreements (Marvin v. Marvin), is binding on all appellate courts and trial courts in California (which are lower courts in relation to the California Supreme Court). Similarly, decisions of the U.S. Supreme Court (the highest court in the country) are generally binding on all other courts in the U.S.

Decisions of lower courts are not binding on higher courts, although from time to time a higher court will adopt the reasoning and conclusion of a lower court. Decisions by courts of the same level (usually appellate courts) are considered persuasive authority. That is, they should always be carefully considered by the later court but need not be followed.

As a practical matter, courts can usually find precedent for any direction they want to go in deciding a particular case. Accordingly, precedent is used as often to justify a particular outcome in a case as it is to guide the decision.

The body of judicial decisions in which were formulated the points of law arising in any case. A previously decided case that is considered binding in the court where it was issued and in all lower courts in the same jurisdiction.

A court decision in an earlier case with facts and law similar to a dispute currently before a court. Precedent will ordinarily govern the decision of a later similar case, unless a party can show that it was wrongly decided or that it differed in some significant way.

The decision of courts of justice when exactly in point with a case before the court are generally held to have a binding authority, as well to keep the scale of justice even and steady because the law in that case has been solemnly declared and determined.

To render precedents valid they must be founded in reason and justice; must have been made upon argument, and be the solemn decision of the court; and in order to give them binding effect there must be a current of decisions.

According to Lord Talbot, it is "much better to stick to the known general rules than to follow any one particular precedent which may be founded on reason unknown to us." Blackstone says, that a former decision is in general to be followed unless "manifestly absurd or unjust," and, in the latter case, it is declared when overruled not that the former sentence was bad law, but that it was not law.

Precedents can only be useful when they show that the case has been decided upon a certain principle and ought not to be binding when contrary to such principle. If a precedent is to be followed because it is a precedent, even when decided against an established rule of law, there can be no possible correction of abuses because the fact of their existence renders them above the law. It is always safe to rely upon principles.

"In Law, a previous decision, rule or practice which, in the absence of a definite statute, has whatever force and authority a Judge may choose to give it, thereby greatly simplifying his task of doing as he pleases. As there are precedents for everything, he has only to ignore those that make against his interest and accentuate those in the line of his desire. Invention of the precedent elevates the trial-at-law from the low estate of a fortuitous ordeal to the noble attitude of a dirigible arbitrament." -- Ambrose Bierce


162 posted on 02/01/2006 4:23:07 PM PST by connectthedots
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To: plain talk
Ich is a spamster and does not serve his cause well. Those that offer thoughtful links and information get more of a read from me. Crevo's should always go out and see what the world thinks. I regularly go to Islamic sites. It's called apologetic training. If one knows their beliefs are sound they have nothing to fear from looking at evo sites. I have studied them and find them extremely one-sided and shallow.

Reminds me of the Dems advising the Republicans on how to make more effective points with the American people. Who do you think you're kidding? There is no piece of evidence any evo could present that would change your opinion. So don't strain our credulity.

163 posted on 02/01/2006 4:23:13 PM PST by Right Wing Professor (When your mind's made up, nothing's more confusing than lots and lots and lots of facts.)
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To: connectthedots
I did not predict that the school district would win...

I seem to recall you predicted Behe would shine on the witness stand, or kick butt, or something else good for ID.

164 posted on 02/01/2006 4:23:32 PM PST by VadeRetro (Liberalism is a cancer on society. Creationism is a cancer on conservatism.)
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To: VadeRetro
I seem to recall you predicted Behe would shine on the witness stand

He would have shone on the witness stand, but he wore that silly little cloth cap to cover up the ol' chrome-dome.

165 posted on 02/01/2006 4:25:18 PM PST by Right Wing Professor (When your mind's made up, nothing's more confusing than lots and lots and lots of facts.)
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To: plain talk
Ich is a spamster and does not serve his cause well.

That's only because you don't have an answer for his posts.

166 posted on 02/01/2006 4:27:01 PM PST by narby (Hillary! The Wicked Witch of the Left)
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ID-implosion PLACEMARKER


167 posted on 02/01/2006 4:27:07 PM PST by jennyp (WHAT I'M READING NOW: your mind)
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To: unlearner
Universal common descent is nonessential to any science. What consequences would there be of it being untrue?

Baby Fae
Bailey's use of baboons was somewhat surprising, given their relatively distant evolutionary relationship to humans compared to other primates. The reason came to light when the Times of London published an interview between Bailey and an Australian radio crew. The reporters had been forbidden to ask direct questions about the operation, so they queried Bailey on the issue of why he had chosen a baboon in view of the baboon's evolutionary distance from humans. Bailey replied, "Er, I find that difficult to answer. You see, I don't believe in evolution."6

168 posted on 02/01/2006 4:28:42 PM PST by Oztrich Boy (Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction. Pascal)
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To: shuckmaster; connectthedots
You sure are in for a lot of disappointments if you're naive enough to believe that!

Not really.

Here try this: Edwards v Aguillard

Scalias opinion, though it be a dissenting one here, carries a bit more weight than ole District Court Judge Jones though neither is authoritarian.

And Scalia now has friends.

Of course my preference would be to keep federal courts out of state business but I gotta go where my fellow "conservatives" are wont to take us.

169 posted on 02/01/2006 4:33:45 PM PST by jwalsh07
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To: Oztrich Boy
Aha! So you admit that a doctor can get through med school, practice medicine, and still be a creationist!
</creationism mode>
170 posted on 02/01/2006 4:34:09 PM PST by PatrickHenry (Virtual Ignore for trolls, lunatics, dotards, scolds, & incurable ignoramuses.)
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To: Right Wing Professor
I have my reasons for not joining in the mirth on that one. ;)
171 posted on 02/01/2006 4:35:29 PM PST by VadeRetro (Liberalism is a cancer on society. Creationism is a cancer on conservatism.)
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To: VadeRetro
Sorry.

Of course, it's just a result of a super-active cerebrum. :)

172 posted on 02/01/2006 4:37:53 PM PST by Right Wing Professor (When your mind's made up, nothing's more confusing than lots and lots and lots of facts.)
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To: PatrickHenry
In December, a federal judge presiding over another case of Darwin versus faith in a public-school system handed the antimaterialists a defeat so sweeping—in the form of a judicial decision so detailed and so trenchant—that even the most passionate advocates of faith-based science seem stunned and confused about the future of their cause.

The fool who wrote this understands the law and the precedential effect of a federal district court decision about as well as he understands Intelligent Design.

ID is here to stay. The debate has just begun.

173 posted on 02/01/2006 4:38:20 PM PST by JCEccles
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To: plain talk
Ich is a spamster and does not serve his cause well.

He does the spam posts when he gets mad. The madder he is, the bigger the post. If he is really mad, then the internet goes down.

If one knows their beliefs are sound they have nothing to fear from looking at evo sites. I have studied them and find them extremely one-sided and shallow.

One difference I have noted about scientific evo sites (not including talkorigins.org which is a completely biased and non-scientific propaganda site), is that they never talk like anything is controversal and all is settled. On the other hand, I have been to 3 or 4 big bang theory sites and they all have from 5 to 10 items at the bottom that describe the problems associated with the big-bang theory.

If the evos would admit to/show the problems with evolution their sites would appear more scientific.
174 posted on 02/01/2006 4:39:08 PM PST by microgood
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To: whattajoke; Senator Bedfellow
Don't get mad at me when you see me using variants of this statement over the next 10 yrs here.

The ostensible "fence-sitter" to me is another variant of the "secular skeptic of evolution." Few if any such ever pass the sniff test. Overwhelmingly, they are creationist-sympathizers afraid of the creationist label or hoping to act as the shill in the crowd.

175 posted on 02/01/2006 4:40:25 PM PST by VadeRetro (Liberalism is a cancer on society. Creationism is a cancer on conservatism.)
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To: JCEccles
The fool who wrote this understands the law and the precedential effect of a federal district court decision about as well as he understands Intelligent Design

I'd say you're right (except the writer is not a fool). Unfortunately for ID, we all understand ID quite well.

176 posted on 02/01/2006 4:40:33 PM PST by Right Wing Professor (When your mind's made up, nothing's more confusing than lots and lots and lots of facts.)
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To: Right Wing Professor
Pressure of all those brains, yes.
177 posted on 02/01/2006 4:41:25 PM PST by VadeRetro (Liberalism is a cancer on society. Creationism is a cancer on conservatism.)
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To: JCEccles
ID is here to stay. The debate has just begun.

You're right. Like poverty, ignorance will always be with us.

178 posted on 02/01/2006 4:42:28 PM PST by narby (Hillary! The Wicked Witch of the Left)
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Bump for later reading.


179 posted on 02/01/2006 4:44:58 PM PST by Mushinronshasan
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To: microgood
On the other hand, I have been to 3 or 4 big bang theory sites and they all have from 5 to 10 items at the bottom that describe the problems associated with the big-bang theory.

That's because there are considerable problems with big-bang. It was originally proposed by a religious astronomer as a way to explain how God created the universe. Science adopted it after Hubble's red shift data, but no doubt some scientists were religiously motivated back then, and now it's contradictions are catching up.

I never really bought into it, although I don't know enough about it to argue the subject.

Evolution on the other hand is obvious on it's face, and is supported in many cross correlating manners. So why should evolutionists "admit to/show the problems" where there aren't any?

180 posted on 02/01/2006 4:50:03 PM PST by narby (Hillary! The Wicked Witch of the Left)
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