Ethanol Can Replace Gasoline With Big Energy Savings (cellulosic ethanol is best)

TerraDaily ^ | 1/27/2006 | Staff

[cogitator]

This is front-page news because I heard on the radio this morning that energy will be a big theme in the SOUA, according to the POTUS himself, and he will likely mention ethanol from the waste stream, i.e. cellulosic ethanol.

And in order to improve the energy balance even more, nuclear power could be used to power the biomass-to-cellulosic ethanol conversion.

[George Smiley]

It was my understanding that it requires a greater amount of energy to produce a gallon of ethanol than you can get out of it.

Until this hurdle is crossed, it's not going to be cost-effective without subsidies (or is that oxymoronic?)

[dirtboy]

if the ethanol is produced not from corn but from woody, fibrous plants: cellulose.

I thought that was called wood alcohol, or methanol. Which is quite toxic.

[Eric in the Ozarks]

Sugar Cane ?

[Tarpon]

What? why is that a problem :^)

[dirtboy]

though emerging cellulosic technologies using waste would push the equation more toward ethanol.

I know Coors is using brewing waste to make ethanol (too bad they can't instead figure out how to make their beer better, but that's another subject).

Getting the most from organic waste is a good idea, such as biodiesel from frying oil. But those are niches. We still need primary sources of fuel.

[cogitator]

As I read this article (I haven't tackled the article in Science yet), the actual energy yield for ethanol production and use as a fuel in vehicles is higher than the yield for using gasoline as the fuel directly. It'll be interesting to see if the commentary on this article supports my interpretation.

[commish]

Cellulosic Ethanol -- a use for liposuction leftovers???

[cogitator]

I thought that was called wood alcohol, or methanol. Which is quite toxic.

No, you can make ethanol from biomass.

[cogitator]

Sugar Cane ?

Cane stalks are a good biomass source. Switchgrass is better, though.

[nomorelurker]

Well here we go again these posts bring almost as much vitriol as any on Freerepublic but are fun to watch anyway. For the record I support ethanol use but without subsidies. An isn't cellulose derived alcohol Methanol?

[E. Pluribus Unum]

Business Plan:

1. If it really works, just start making it.

2. If it doesn't really work, then try to get the government to mandate and subsidize it.

3. Profit!

[KarlInOhio]

It looks like this plan uses the whole plant instead of just the grain. If you can use the stalk, roots and the cob of a corn plant instead of just the grain from the cob to make ethanol, it probably makes more sense.

[lentulusgracchus]

The article doesn't tell you that simple alcohols reduce fuel mileage. That's because they contain less energy -- less specific heat -- than gasoline formulated without them.

Straight methanol cuts mileage in half, because it has half the specific heat of gasoline.

The reduction for ethanol is less, but a 15-20% admixture of ethanol reduces mileage by about 5-10%, so your hybrid getting 40 mpg would get 36 mpg running the same driving cycle on "gasohol".

They mention that anywhere in the article? Didn't think so.

It's the dirty little secret of "oxygenated fuels".

[rellimpank]

--there is a great deal of information-old and new-(and propaganda) floating around on the subject.

My personal guide on the matter is that since I have relatives in the middle of corn country and get back there about three times a year, when I begin to see the planting, cultivation and processing of corn converting to ethanol fuels, rather than diesel and natural gas, that ethanol's time will have arrived--

[Vn_survivor_67-68]

grow food

drill ANWR

alcohol as an automotive fuel is nonsense. The logistics for alcohon are as preposterous as for H2.

[Eric in the Ozarks]

There's 400-500 years worth of coal in Wyoming.

[XR7]

Every solution presents new problems. Now the homeless will be out siphoning "gas" tanks.

LOL!

And, we numbskulls will be paying way more for "gas" and federal agricultural subsidies so we can "save the planet!"

[Blueflag]

"The transition would be worth it, the authors point out, if the ethanol is produced not from corn but from woody, fibrous plants: cellulose."

Gee, you can make ethanol from crude oil if ya work hard enough.


"Ethanol can be, if it's made the right way with cellulosic technology, a really good fuel for the United States," said Farrell, an assistant professor of energy and resources. "At the moment, cellulosic technology is just too expensive. If that changes - and the technology is developing rapidly - then we might see cellulosic technology enter the commercial market within five years."

I can hear the Greenies screaming soon about this. Right now they scream when pine trees are cut for pulp, plywood and dimensional lumber. They'll have a cow if trees are pointed at fuel uses.


Cellulosic technology refers to the use of bacteria to convert the hard, fibrous content of plants - cellulose and lignin - into starches that can be fermented by other bacteria to produce ethanol. Farrell said that two good sources of fibrous plant material are switchgrass and willow trees, though any material, from farm waste to specially grown crops or trees, would work. One estimate is that there are a billion tons of currently unused waste available for ethanol production in the United States.

I worked on a closed loop, anaerobic fermentation experiment back in the 70s where we tried all sorts of different fungi, bacteria, pH, catalysts etc etc trying to find a the means to metabolize the lignin out of wood and leave the cellulose behind (for paper pulp). Never could make it work. All the bugs had an easy hierarchy -- sugar, starch, cellulose, and almost never lignin. Needless to say, we couldn't make it work.

Instead of going for 'cellulosic ethanol' we'd be better served by cracking the code on synthetic photosynthesis. THAT's a cure all I'd like to see!

[cogitator]

We still need primary sources of fuel.

From the article: "Kammen estimates that ethanol could replace 20 to 30 percent of fuel usage in this country with little effort in just a few years."

That sounds like a primary fuel to me, if it's really feasible.