Circumcision Ritual Generates Controversy

1010 WINS AM ^

[chet_in_ny]

For thousands of years, rabbis performed a simple procedure to cleanse the wound left by a ritual circumcision. Like Boy Scouts treating a snake bite, they quickly sucked blood from the cut and spit it aside, ostensibly disposing of any harmful impurities.

The procedure may seem pure 18th Century, but it is the subject of a clash between religion and science in modern-day New York.

Prompted by a child's death, the state health department is developing its first set of safety guidelines on the ritual of oral suction, which was abandoned by most Jews long ago but survived in a handful of Hasidic communities.

Doctors have long been concerned that the act, called "metzitzah b'peh" in Hebrew, could spread disease, but their argument became urgent last year when New York City health officials said the procedure had given a baby a fatal infection.

The illness was herpes simplex type 1, the common virus transmitted by saliva that causes cold sores. Usually harmless to adults, it can be deadly to newborns.

[Giant Conservative]

It's perverted. And apparently quite common.

[Giant Conservative]

Ending barbarism is much more important than cloaking it in politically-correct euphemisms.

[Giant Conservative]

This is barbarism veiled as religious custom that exposes innocents, who cannot protect themselves, to the lunacy of moronic zealots who think because they say it is their religion that no one has a right to object. As I have said in the past these freaks are just a few steps ahead of the islamocrazies. These are of the same ilk as the idiots who stone cars in Israel on the Sabbath and cause riots if their neighbors are not religious enough. If their idiot rabbi said clitorectomy was required in the name of their religion, they would want you to keep out of that business too. Morons. Scary morons. Thank the lord that they are not in a position to push their idiotic beliefs on those not “chosen”.

Well said.

[Giant Conservative]

What does this Jewish ritual have to do with the Catholic Church?

Read the heresey that is "Vatican 2".

[Giant Conservative]

Abraham's God was the same God as Jesus' God and the Christian God

Not true.

[Aliska]

Huh? This is an old thread, and I don't want to argue about God or gods today. Abraham was saved by faith according to the NT IIRC. We could discuss in ad infinitum, I suppose.

[Giant Conservative]

No true deity would ever require such a bloodthirsty ritual.

[kalee]

The CDC offered assurances that AIDS was not transmissible via the shared chalace back in the 80's. Their opinion was that the wine killed the virus.
I remember the concern over this and that the CDC statement was published in our church newslettter and bulletin at the time.

[FreedomCalls]

The United States has less than half the population of Europe yet nearly twice as many cases of HIV.

Huh? Total population of Europe in 2006: 807,289,000. Total population of the United States in 2006: 299,093,000.

[kalee]

The cervical cancer virus doesn't just appear out of nowhere, for your partner to give it to you he had to catch it elsewhere. The problem is not so much whether or not he is circumcised, but whether or not he is faithful or has previously been promiscuous.

[FreedomCalls]

Oops. Left out the HIV stats. Reposted.

The United States has less than half the population of Europe yet nearly twice as many cases of HIV.

Huh? Total population of Europe in 2006: 807,289,000. Total population of the United States in 2006: 299,093,000.

HIV cases in Europe: 633,700 confirmed with 2 million estimated. HIV cases in the United States: 462,700 confirmed with 1.1 million estimated.

[FreedomCalls]

More and more women are requesting labiaplasty (which is similar to the circumcision of men).

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=Labiaplasty&btnG=Google+Search

[AntiGuv]

Your figures include the former Soviet Union and Turkey, which I didn't count (a) because of sociocultural differences; and (b) because Muslims are circumcised.

Moreover, the epidemic in the former Soviet Union has been primarily due to IV drug abuse transmission.

So, in short, that knocks 392,997 off your European figure.

Nice try though.

[AntiGuv]

PS. And of course, if you do count the former Soviet Union and so on then the population is over two and a half times that of the United States, while the HIV load is less than one and a half times that of the United States.

So, in short, even then my point is more than made, especially when transmission in both Europe and the former Soviet Union has been far more heavily tilted toward IV drug users than in the United States.

The notion that circumcision prevents HIV is nonsense.

[AntiGuv]

Correction: The notion that circumcision prevents HIV is dangerous nonsense.

[ContraryMary]

Infant circumcision isn't surgery. Don't cloud the issue with non-relevancies. And didn't you just say that there were several forms of female cutting?

[ContraryMary]

The most recent statement by the American Academy of Pediatrics reads as follows: "Existing scientific evidence demonstrates potential medical benefits of newborn male circumcision; however, these data are not sufficient to recommend routine neonatal circumcision. In circumstances in which there are potential benefits and risks, yet the procedure is not essential to the child's current well-being, parents should determine what is in the best interest of the child. To make an informed choice, parents of all male infants should be given accurate and unbiased information and be provided the opportunity to discuss this decision. If a decision for circumcision is made, procedural analgesia should be provided."

This doesn't sound like a recommendation against circumcision. This sounds like...leave it up to the parents. This comes from the URL you posted.

[AntiGuv]

Oh, I see Israel was included too, so knock off another 4309 from your HIV figure. So, the figure for HIV diagnoses in Europe should be 236,075 versus 462,700 in the United States.

It's also noteworthy that Israel has twice the rate of Germany and a higher rate than France. It's also interesting that Britain, the only Western European nation where circumcision was common until the 1960s, has easily one of the highest rates in Western Europe.

[AntiGuv]

Portugal (280.5 per million) and Luxembourg (130.7 per million) being the only nations in Western or Central Europe that surpass Britain (122.1 per million), and those for easily discerned reasons: Luxembourg is heavily urban and Portugal had a huge outbreak amongst heroin users about five or so years ago.

OK, I'm done with this now!

[TruthWillWin]

I couldn't overcome the smell, nor the feel of it.An indication of poor hygiene and nothing to do with being intact. Dirty circumcised males have bad odor also.