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Activists Hold Separate Forum in Venezuela (Libs turning on libs?)
AP via Houston Chronicle ^ | Jan. 27, 2006 | NATALIE OBIKO PEARSON

Posted on 01/27/2006 2:27:36 PM PST by proud_yank

CARACAS, Venezuela — The World Social Forum started as an alternative to the market-friendly World Economic Forum, but now there's an alternative to the alternative.

Annoyed by all the focus on Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez, some anti-globalization activists have split from the World Social Forum to hold their own "Alternative Social Forum" in the Venezuelan capital.

Disgruntled activists complain the ubiquitous red T-shirts of Chavez's party and rows of promotional booths are everywhere at the main event, stifling debate and undermining the forum's capacity to act as a catalyst for social change.

"The World Social Forum was born as an alternative," said Luis Silva, 35, an organizer of the dissident forum. "But little by little it has succumbed to political parties and governments. It's acting as a stage of support for Chavez."

The seven-day alternative symposium shares some of the anti-capitalist themes dominating the World Social Forum, which has drawn more than 60,000 people from around the globe and coincides with the World Economic Forum in Davos, Switzerland.

But the dissident event is taking up issues that resonate in Venezuela, like the dangers of authoritarianism under a military strongman. The theme could easily be taken as criticism of Chavez, a former paratroop commander accused by political opponents of running roughshod over democratic institutions. It is off-limits in the main forum, said Nelson Mendez, a Venezuelan engineering professor who has helped organize the dissident event.

Participants at the six-day main conference have heaped praise on Chavez's social programs for the poor and applauded him for standing up to U.S.-backed free trade initiatives.

The Venezuelan leader, who insists his policies have not undermined democracy but given voice the poor, welcomed activists to the main forum Thursday, saying the ideas being discussed have raised awareness and helped "pulverize" free trade proposals.

"These ideas have been pulverized by history," Chavez said in a televised speech. "That's why the World Social Forum that is happening right now in Caracas is so important."

Helped by Venezuela's armies of street vendors, Chavez's image has permeated the World Social Forum. Masks and talking dolls of the president provide a fresh alternative to the staple posters of Cuban leader Fidel Castro and revolutionary icon Ernesto "Che" Guevara.

"I usually buy only reading material at these types of events, but I had to have one," said French activist Rene Villepin, shelling out $30 for a doll sporting Chavez's signature red beret. At the push of a button, the doll booms: "It's your dream, it's your hope and it's your job to be free and equal."

Organizers of the World Social Forum insist the event is nonpartisan, saying it's in keeping with tradition that Chavez's government has spent roughly $465,000 for administrative costs.

As for Chavez's plans to speak during the forum, Brazilian organizer Nalu Faria said simply that he was "invited by some of the movements."

The World Social Forum was first held in Brazil in 2001. It has grown into what organizers call one of the world's premier gatherings of anti-globalization activists. But as it goes into its sixth year, critics say it has lost much of its spontaneity and grass-roots activism.

At the alternative forum, activities in university classrooms include talks on Venezuela's military buildup, the role of transnational corporations in the country, and a march against coal mining in Indian regions of western Venezuela.

Although far smaller than the primary event, it has drawn hundreds of academics, artists and students _ mostly Venezuelans but also speakers from other Latin American countries including Argentina, Brazil and Uruguay.

They emphasized they are not aligned with Venezuela's opposition or any other political interest, describing themselves as freethinking leftists, communists and anarchists who feel the World Social Forum no longer represents them.

But they questioned the prevailing idea at the World Social Forum that Chavez is helping create a new economic model at the vanguard of a leftist swing in Latin America.

"The revolution doesn't exist," Silva said, suggesting Venezuela needs more radical economic changes. "It's a government with a nationalist discourse."


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; Foreign Affairs
KEYWORDS: anticapitalist; chavez; commiescumbags; pinkoalert; socialforum; socialist; venezuela
Chavez has given voice to the poor, or made those screams louder by creating more poor?

I found this article rather amusing.

1 posted on 01/27/2006 2:27:41 PM PST by proud_yank
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To: proud_yank
This isn't said in the article (slopply journalism), buts mostly a "stalinists versus Trotskyies" type of issue.

Different groups on the left do have variations, that, without an enemey to attack, turn on each other.

Think of how in the aftermath of globalization riots Anarchists start being up and attacking marxists, etc.

2 posted on 01/27/2006 2:36:10 PM PST by Sonny M ("oderint dum metuant")
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To: proud_yank

Chavez will call them CIA agents and capitalist roaders, round them up, and lock them away.


3 posted on 01/27/2006 2:37:07 PM PST by proxy_user
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To: proud_yank

It would help if more people realized that outside of hatred to America and a loathing of capitalism, most of these groups are actually natural enemies of each other.


4 posted on 01/27/2006 2:38:12 PM PST by Sonny M ("oderint dum metuant")
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To: Sonny M

Didn't Stalin have Trotsky killed with an ice axe? I've read only a little bit online regarding different communist theories, but forget what all the differences are. IMO, all you have to do is study enough history to realize that it has never worked!

I wouldn't mind giving them all their own island and letting them have at each other. Free tickets for all libs interested :-)


5 posted on 01/27/2006 2:40:14 PM PST by proud_yank (Aspiring CEO of a multinational corporation)
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To: Sonny M

If you have any good reading suggestions, please let me know.


6 posted on 01/27/2006 2:41:10 PM PST by proud_yank (Aspiring CEO of a multinational corporation)
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To: proud_yank
But as it goes into its sixth year, critics say it has lost much of its spontaneity and grass-roots activism.

IOW, it got too "commercial" for them.

7 posted on 01/27/2006 2:43:43 PM PST by randog (What the....?!)
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To: proud_yank
Didn't Stalin have Trotsky killed with an ice axe? I've read only a little bit online regarding different communist theories, but forget what all the differences are. IMO, all you have to do is study enough history to realize that it has never worked!

Stalin did have Trotsky assinated by a KVMD guy.

That assasin is buried today in moscow and was given awards before he died in the late 70's.

The commie clowns will always argue that it works, but that the people were screwed up in charge.

There are alot of different schools of communist thought.....and all of them are bad.

Think Trotsky, Maoism, Stalinism, and then seperate variations, etc.

8 posted on 01/27/2006 2:55:38 PM PST by Sonny M ("oderint dum metuant")
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To: proud_yank

I like it when trash takes on trash. :)


9 posted on 01/27/2006 3:01:04 PM PST by Ptarmigan (Proud bunny hater and killer)
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To: proud_yank
If you have any good reading suggestions, please let me know.

I don't want to look like I'm spreading left wing propaganda, so the easiest way to go about it, is to look over at some of the DUmmies complaints about the World workers party, go to their websites also, the various Daily Kos sites, and some of the moveon stuff.

They all have various gripes with various factions.

Thats before you even get into the numerious marxist websites out there on the web.

I had alot of college lefty professors back in the day, thank the good lord they never managed to brainwash me.

If you look at some of the different enviornmentalist groups, they have differences with each other...and natural conflicts with labor groups....who have conflicts with agricultural groups....who have conflicts with nationalist groups, and every marxist group has its own variations.

You could also look up the phrase "libertarian-socialist" and see how many of them are anarchists, and why they have problems with the marxists.

These left wing rallys and summits are basically coalitions.

10 posted on 01/27/2006 3:01:37 PM PST by Sonny M ("oderint dum metuant")
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To: Sonny M
My favorite Reagan quote:

"How do you tell a communist? Well, it's someone who reads Marx and Lenin. And how do you tell an anti-Communist? It's someone who understands Marx and Lenin." —Ronald Reagan Remarks in Arlington, Virginia, September 25, 1987

I feel blessed having been born a "Reagan Baby"!
11 posted on 01/27/2006 3:02:06 PM PST by proud_yank (Aspiring CEO of a multinational corporation)
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To: Ptarmigan
I like it when trash takes on trash. :)

LOL, But who is going to toss this trash into the DUmpster?
12 posted on 01/27/2006 3:03:45 PM PST by proud_yank (Aspiring CEO of a multinational corporation)
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To: Sonny M
I don't want to look like I'm spreading left wing propaganda

I wouldn't suspect that for a minute! I hope I didn't raise any eyebrows either asking that!! Usually the people who scream this crap don't have a clue what they're talking about, so its kind of fun to know more about what they 'claim' to believe than they do.

I had alot of college lefty professors back in the day, thank the good lord they never managed to brainwash me.

I still pride myself on making a professor of mine get teary-eyed my first year of school because of my views on poverty. I wasn't trying to be a jerk, it was before I was even political! I just couldn't connect the dots that the reason people are poor is because of a 'run of bad luck' and that people are successful b/c they're 'lucky'.

Sadly though, I'll be honest and say that I suffered a brief case of liberalism. I tried to see the world from that point of view, but I couldn't get my head that far up my arse! It feels much better ridding myself of that illness :-)
13 posted on 01/27/2006 3:10:58 PM PST by proud_yank (Aspiring CEO of a multinational corporation)
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To: Sonny M

When it comes to Communist and DNC infighting, Satan usually picks one side:

his own.


14 posted on 01/27/2006 3:37:57 PM PST by Emmet Fitzhume ("Without God, democracy will not and cannot long endure." President Reagan)
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To: proud_yank
Sadly though, I'll be honest and say that I suffered a brief case of liberalism. I tried to see the world from that point of view, but I couldn't get my head that far up my arse! It feels much better ridding myself of that illness :-)

While I myself was never a liberal, I did notice that even some of my extreme liberal teachers had disagreements.

Some of them were from the pro-maoist camp explaining why China surivived and the soviets didn't, others were from the trotsky ideaology, explaining that if it hadn't been for stalin, and trotsky has survived, that maybe the soviets would have survived, and other groups allegeding that Stalin had it right, and castro was proof of that.

I walked into college right leaning, and walked out hard right wing, convinced that it was government that caused all the problems, and that, in the worst of all worst case scenarios, anarchy by itself was better then marxism.

Ironica a viewpoint as it was, it also helped me make conservative arguements against teachers by hitting them from different viewpoints (i.e. hitting enviornmentalist propaganda with labor propaganda, hitting enviornmentalist propaganda with the race card, hitting the race card with homophobia card...see gentrification, hitting labor with the enviornmentalist stuff, each group can be played against each other).

It also explains George Mitchells famous quote about the democratic party, In any country other then america, the democratic party would be 5 different parties (he is currently the chairman of Disney and the boss of Michael Eisner).

If you ever get a chance to look it up, try and find the articles on the globalization riots, including the one in seattle, you'll see them even attacking each other, especially the anarchists.

15 posted on 01/27/2006 8:57:55 PM PST by Sonny M ("oderint dum metuant")
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To: proud_yank

Chavez and his socialists (and some of ours, unfortunately, who are being romanced by Chavez) don't want anyone to write about how many people are now even MORE POOR than they were before Chavez, right there in Venezuela.

Try buying coffee beans from a farmer. Ooops, Chavez thought he just "had to nationalize" the industry.

Have a car? Oooops, Chavez just "has to nationalize" that vehicle (protect you from yourself).

Chavez is just beating his chest and indulging who he regards as useful tools so he and Castro can ride a higher profile lustre, just as Castro's been doing his entire life.

And Castro's eventual, fifty-years in development national product? A rice cooker. Nationalized, of course.


16 posted on 01/29/2006 3:58:21 PM PST by MillerCreek
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To: proud_yank

Does anybody question WHY Chavez just "had to nationalize" the coffee industry? The land, agriculture, crops...think it through.


17 posted on 01/29/2006 3:59:12 PM PST by MillerCreek
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