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To: TheStraightDope
I see there are plenty of you who think that God's will is thwarted when a person is removed from artificial means of sustenance; aren't there any Christians out there who think that maybe it's actually thwarting God's will to keep people alive indefinately by keeping them hooked to a machine? The latter seems a bit more logical than the former.

Haleigh was removed from a ventilator, and started breathing on her own when the DSS & state's assured prognosis was that removing her from the ventilator was 0% survival. Was God's will thwarted when the ventilator was removed and she didn't die on her own?

I realize you are new to the forum, perhaps you lurked for awhile first, but this is a conservative forum, and many of us agree with the founder's Statement who wrote we are "Pro-God and Pro-Life" as 2 of the first on a list of many identifiers.

Many of us pray for this girl's life. If it is God's will that she dies, who would argue, so long as it is God's will and not the state's determination. That is the main argument here. This is not a Right-to-die case, which has previously evoked much of the same argument you posed here "I sure as hell hope nobody hooks me up to something so I can look back and forth in the same room until I croak". She is 11, a child, and deserves protecting.

25 posted on 01/26/2006 8:30:03 PM PST by cgk (I don't see myself as a conservative. I see myself as a religious, right-wing, wacko extremist.)
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To: cgk

"Was God's will thwarted when the ventilator was removed and she didn't die on her own?"

I don't know, I would never claim to know such a thing in such a specific instance.

"...many of us agree with the founder's Statement who wrote we are "Pro-God and Pro-Life" as 2 of the first on a list of many identifiers."

Yes, I'm aware of this, hence my question as to whether there were any Christians who believed that we go too far; if anybody thought maybe we sometimes interfere with the natural course of things out of human pride. I was under the impression however, that the term "Pro-Life" is typically a reference to being opposed to abortion. If one were to truly be Pro-Life in the sense you seem to be implying, that of never killing a human (if one were to construe the discontinuation of life support to be a form of killing, which of course as I have mentioned seems to come down to a matter of belief) then of necessity, one would have to be opposed to wars, the death penalty etc... Or do you mean you're Pro-Life if the individual is under the age of 17?

"Many of us pray for this girl's life."

Moreover, shouldn't we pray for improvement and recovery as well?

"If it is God's will that she dies, who would argue, so long as it is God's will and not the state's determination."

But you said yourself she was removed from a ventilator and started breathing on her own... if it is not a surety that someone will die when a ventilator is removed, it is not a "determination" that the individual SHOULD die but rather that their life, if it is to continue, should be left up to nature/God/whatever. How does one determine if one is in line with God's will, or if one struggles against it?

"She is 11, a child, and deserves protecting."

I do not disagree. In the beginning, I was merely indulging in some philosophical speculation and posing an ontological question. I realize now that such an action must have been out of place.

"Gird up now thy loins like a man; for I will demand of thee, and answer thou me.
Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.
Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?

Have the gates of death been opened unto thee? or hast thou seen the doors of the shadow of death?" --God, Job 38:4-6,17







47 posted on 01/27/2006 12:14:12 PM PST by TheStraightDope
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