Pope believes Islam incapable of reform?

WorldNet Daily ^ | 24 January 2006 | World Net Daily

[Arpege92]

"But, whenever Islam goes back to its 'bible' you can expect more mayhem."

Agreed.

[livius]

Christianity and Islam are fundamentally different. Islam has been violent since its foundation; the Christian church occasionally goes off the rails (but because of the corruption of its leaders, not because of the faith itself) and then is hauled back on track by reforms. The 15th and 16th centuries were great periods of learning, art, etc., although there was also corruption among the heirarchy that needed to be cleaned out.

To be able reform something means that there must be something intially good to "reform" back to - in Islam, there is not and there never has been.

However, it is also incapable of being modified in any way to coexist with other views of society. It is the only world religion that essentially sees the political and the religious as one and the same, the ideal form of government of which is a theocracy (rule by its hereditary clergy). This is a fundamental part of its world view, and since it cannot reexamine its foundations because it regards it "scriptures" as incapable of interpretation (in fact, they are not even supposed to be translated), there is no way for it to be encouraged to adapt itself.

[Theo]

Everything you learned about Christianity in the 15th and 16th century you learned from the movies.

[varon]

But I think saying that Islam is incapable of reform is ridiculous

If Islam reforms, will it still be Islam?

It seems that in today's world Islam serves a dual purpose; one of religion and the other of a political philosophy.................

[sandbar]

I'm not trying to be sacriligious to Catholics or anything, but does this pope not look frightening? Pope John Paul was so sweet and gentle looking. I had such affection for him, growing up with him being THE Pope. The new one (can't remember his name) has like demon eyes or something.

[bikepacker67]

The new one (can't remember his name)

Benedict... (which of course conjures thoughts of a traitor!)

[exile]

Agreed. If Islam was to reform, it would no longer be Islam. How can you moderate "Kill the Infidels"?

[exile]

I kind of like the new Pope. He always looks like he's p!ssed off and not going to take it anymore. He's the Jack Baur of pontiffs.

[Iscool]

SSSHHHhhhhh

[garv]

Da Vinci, Shakespeare, Michelangelo, Raphael, Columbus,etc. These men were members of, and flourished in, 15th and 16th century Christian culture.

Islamic culture would do well to try and catch up to the 15th century european version.

[Theoden]

Pope Benedict is German(Bavarian) after all, a lot of them do have those menacing eyes. LOL, He is actually quite PO'ed, as I have heard that the night before he was elected pope, he said there is so much filth in the Church. I hope he continually cleans house within the Church, and brings it back to the Orthodoxy that it should be.

[starbase]

Agreed. If Islam was to reform, it would no longer be Islam. How can you moderate "Kill the Infidels"?

Ridicule the manicures of the Infidels!!!!

[exile]

Give the infidels a "really nasty t!tty twister".

[starbase]

LOL!

[unionblue83]

If Islam reforms, will it still be Islam? It seems that in today's world Islam serves a dual purpose; one of religion and the other of a political philosophy................. Islam has always been about religion/politics combined. The Koran and the hadiths set up the way the country/territory/whatever should be run (i.e. shari'a law). Islam can't reform the way that Christianity did or it would cease to exist (which wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing IMO). The goal of Islam is to spread to all corners of the earth and offer those who wish to live, the dhimmi status. There is no peaceful coexistence with Islam. You can either convert, live as a dhimmi or die.

[USF]

The highly influential and prolific Sayyid Qutb:

It is not the function of Islam to compromise with the concepts of Jahiliyya which are current in the world or to co-exist in the same land together with a jahili system. This was not the case when it first appeared in the world, nor will it be today or in the future. Jahiliyyah, to whatever period it belongs, is Jahiliyyah; that is, deviation from the worship of One Allah and the way of life prescribed by Allah.

It derives its system and laws and regulations and habits and standards and values from a source other than Allah. On the other hand, Islam is submission to Allah, and its function is to bring people away from Jahiliyyah towards Islam.

Islam cannot accept any mixing with Jahiliyyah. Either Islam will remain, or Jahiliyyah; no half-half situation is possible.

Essentially, moderation, dilution, reformation, is considered bidah for the self declared "true believers."

"Preserving islamic identity in the west." By Br. Amir Abdullah at islam.org.au (Australia).

The likeness of Islam and Kuffar is like that o f fresh clear spring water and water brought up from the bottom of a suburban sewer. If even a drop of the filthy water enters the clear water, the clarity diminishes. Likewise it only takes a drop of the filth of disbelief to contaminate Islam in the West.

The message of islam and the koran is universal and for all time. Mohammed along with all the vile examples he set for his followers is considered to be "al insan al kamil" (the "perfect man") whom muslims are to emulate.

[USF]

Or this:

The Messenger of Allaah (sallallaahu alaihi wasallam) said: "Every innovation is misguidance and going astray" Reported by Abu Daawood (no. 4607), at-Tirmidhee (no. 2676) and it is saheeh. Ibn Hajr authenticated it Takhreej Ahaadeeth Ibn ul-Haajib (1/137).

And he (sallallaahu alaihi wasallam) also said: "… and every innovation is misguidance and all misguidance is in the Hellfire." Reported by an-Nasaa'ee (1/224) from Jaabir bin Abdullaah and it is saheeh as declared by Shaikh ul-Islaam Ibn Taymiyyah in Majmoo' ul-Fataawaa (3/58).

The Messenger (sallallaahu alaihi wasallam) also warned against the People of Innovation, from befriending, supporting or taking from them saying: "Whoever innovates or accommodates an innovator then upon him is the curse of Allaah, His Angels and the whole of mankind." Reported by Bukhaaree (12/41) and Muslim (9/140)

And in his footsteps, we find the Noble Companions and the Taabi'een after them warning from the danger of innovations upon the Ummah, its people and their unity, since it is innovations which have divided the Ummah and split it asunder.

Ibn Abbaas (d. 68H) said: "Indeed the most detestable of things to Allaah are the innovations." Reported by al-Bayhaqee in as-Sunan al-Kubraa (4/316)

Ibn Umar (d. 84H) said: "Every innovation is misguidance, even if the people see it as something good." Reported by Abu Shaamah (no. 39)

Ahmad Ibn Hanbal once said, "The greatest sinner (faasiq) from the Ahl-Sunnah Wal Jamaah is better than the most pious person from Ahl-"Bid'ah".

'Abdullaah ibn Mas'ood, said, "Follow and do not innovate, for you have been given that which is sufficient and every innovation is misguidance." Reported by Abu Khaithamah in Kitaab Ul-'Ilm (no. 540) and declared saheeh by Shaikh al-Albaanee.

Abdullah Ibn Abbaassaid, "When "Bid'ah" is created then the Sunnah dies and this continues until that "Bid'ah" is living and the Sunnah is dead."

Al-'Irbaad ibn Saariyah, , reports that the Prophet said, ".... I have left you upon clear guidance. Its night is like its day. No one deviates from it after me except that he is destroyed." Reported by Ahmad, Ibn Maajah (no. 43) and al-Haakim. It is declared saheeh by Shaikh al-Albaanee in as-Saheehah (no. 937).

Al-Marwazee reports in as-Sunnah (no. 95) that 'Umar ibn 'Abd Allah-'Azeez said, "There is no excuse for anyone, after the Sunnah, to be misguided upon error which he thought was guidance."

Hasan Ibn Attiya, one of the Ta'baeen said, "When the people accept the "Bid'ah" ,  Allah removes the Sunnah from among them and doesn't return it until the day of judgment."

One of the early scholars, Al-Barbahaaree, one of the companions of Ahmed Ibn Hanbal, said, "Beware of "Bid'ah", because every "Bid'ah" started out as something small and resembling the truth and people were fooled by it and followed it until it became bigger and bigger and were trapped by it and it took them out of Islaam."

Shaykh al-Barbaharee (D. 329H Rahimahullah) Also states: May Allah have mercy upon you. Know that the Religion is what came from Allaah, the Blessed and the Most High. It is not something left to the intellect and opinions of men. Knowledge of it is what comes from Allaah and His Messenger, so do not follow anything based upon your desires and so deviate away from the Religion and leave Islam. There will be no excuse for you since Allaah's Messenger explained the Sunnah to his Ummah and made it clear to his Companions and they are the Jamaa'ah and they are the Main Body, and the Main Body is the truth and its followers.

This matter has also been indicated by Imaam Maalik (rahimahullaah) in a reported saying of his that ought to be recorded in golden ink. And it is his saying: "Whosoever introduces into Islaam an innovation, which he deems is good, then he has claimed that Muhammad  has betrayed (the trust of conveying) the Message. Read the saying of Allaah, the Mighty and Majestic: 'This day I have completed your Religion for you, and I have perfected My favour upon you, and I am pleased with Islaam as a Religion for you.' [Surat-ul-Maa'idah: 3] So whatever was not (part of) the Religion on that day, is not (part of) the Religion on this day. And the last part of this ummah (nation) will not be rectified, except by that which its first part was rectified by."

Ibn Taymiyyah has a nice passage in one of his books showing that: "In fact, the kufr of Jews and Christians is because of "Bid'ah". They introduced new things into the religion and those things took them completely away from the true message of Musa (Moses) and Isaa (Jesus) Alaihumma Salam".

So just as the condition of the Arabs during the Days of Ignorance (Jaahiliyyah) was not rectified except by the coming of their Prophet Muhammad  with revelation from the heavens - which aided them in this world and which will save them in the next - then the foundation that the good Islaamic well-being must be set upon in this time, is nothing else but the return to the Qur'ân and the Sunnah.

In spite of this, this matter needs a little bit more of articulation, due to the vast number of Islaamic groups and parties that are present on the arena and which claim for themselves to be upon the way by which Islaamic society and Muslim rule can be actualized.

Imaam Ibnul Qayyim al-Jawziyyah The war against the innovators is greater than the war against the Mushrikeen.

SAHÂBAH'S ATTITUDE TOWARDS BID'AH

Every Innovation is a Misguidance
By Shaykh Nasir-ud-deen Albaani

Innovations of Hajj, 'Umrah and Visiting Madinah 
By Shaykh Nasir-ud-deen Albaani

How Do We Know What Is and What Is Not a Bid'ah?

BID'AH:  An anonymous contribution 

A CLARIFICATION OF DOUBTS  REGARDING INNOVATION

Tawheedul-Haakimiyyah as a Separate Category is an Innovation

Saying "sadaq Allaahul-'Adtheem" after finishing reading the Qur'ân

The Salaf and their Position Towards The People of Innovations & Desires

THE DEEN OF ISLAaM IS COMPLETE AND PERFECT

[MortMan]

As the tenets of their "religion" include the militaristic subjugation of the entire world, I'd have to agree with the Pope.

[USF]

And BTW, if there's still any doubt, they can fall back on nice islamic tales such as the prophecy of the 72 sects...