Silence That Speaks Volumes (The Pope States that Islam Cannot Reform, the MSM Yawns)

Washington Times ^ | 1/20/06 | Diane West

[mojito]

Remember when word came down from the Vatican that Pope John Paul II had watched Mel Gibson's "The Passion of the Christ" and liked it? The anonymously sourced story sparked a media firestorm around the globe as reporters sought confirmation of the papal equivalent of two thumbs up. "It is as it was," we later learned the pope supposedly said. Which sounded like the perfect biblical movie blurb; but did the pontiff actually utter the words? After some non-clarifying retractions from the Vatican, it was ultimately hard to say for sure — although not for journalistic want of trying. This natural curiosity stands in striking contrast to the media silence that has met a far more sensational, far more significant report of papal opinion: namely, that Pope Benedict XVI is said to believe that Islam is incapable of reform. This bombshell dropped out of an early January interview conducted by radio host Hugh Hewitt with Father Joseph D. Fessio, SJ, a friend and former student of the pope. Father Fessio recounted the pope's words on the key problem facing Islamic reform this way: "In the Islamic tradition, God has given His word to Mohammed, but it's an eternal word. It's not Mohammed's word. It's there for eternity the way it is. There's no possibility of adapting it or interpreting it...."

[mojito]

The liberal faith is that everything can be reformed, even Islam, if only we can devise a government program to tackle the problem. This Pope is a scholar and theologian who knows better.

[Sergio]

I agree with the Pope, but when I said something similar after Mass one Sunday, folks looked at me like they would look at an apple that had only half a worm in it.

As psychologists like to say, the first step to solving a problem is to admit the problem exists.

Thanks for the post, best regards.

Sergio

[The Lumster]

The real story is WHY the pope thinks Islam cannot be reformed.

Here is his quote

This basic difference, Pope Benedict continued, makes Islam unlike Christianity and Judaism. In the latter two religions, “God has worked through His creatures. And so, it is not just the word of God, it’s the word of Isaiah, not just the word of God, but the word of Mark. He’s used His human creatures, and inspired them to speak His word to the world.” Jews and Christians “can take what’s good” in their traditions and mold it. There is, in other words, “an inner logic to the Christian Bible, which permits it and requires it to be adapted and applied to new situations

Whereas the Bible is, for Benedict, the “word of God that comes through a human community,” he understands the Koran as “something dropped out of Heaven, which cannot be adapted or applied.” This immutability has vast consequences: it means “Islam is stuck. It’s stuck with a text that cannot be adapted.”

So the Pope thinks that the bible is adaptable and thus can (and must) be changed to mean whatever we want it to mean because it came through men but the Koran is a direct unchanging word from God even though it came through Mohammed.

Since I believe that the Bible is the unchanging word of God, I suppose that I too am stuck with a text that cannot be adapted

This is why true bible believeing Christians can never submit to the leadership of the pope.

We do not "adapt" God's word to suit our needs. We must adapt ourselves to the word.

By Faith Alone In Christ Alone!

[Dark Skies]

Allah (the islamic) knew in the beginning, there can be only one...

Real islam cannot coexist with the non-islamic world.

[mojito]

Here is a link to an article in Chiesa that has the conversation that Hugh Hewitt had with Father Fessio.

http://www.chiesa.espressonline.it/dettaglio.jsp?id=45084&eng=y

[heartwood]

When situations come up that never occurred in Biblical times, or were not explicitly addressed you have to take existing text, and apply it. It may not be an exact fit, hence the adaptation.

[redgolum]

Real islam cannot coexist with the non-islamic world.

Which is the real difference between Christianity and islam. In Christianity, part of the deal is you know that many if not most will not follow Christ. While there have been many Utopian dreamers, the fact is that we all have to admit that many will not want to come to Christ. In islam, you fight the infidel till he converts or he dies. No exceptions.

[His Supreme Majesty]

Judeo-Christian tradition
Islam
In the end...there can be only one

Capitalism/individual-centric society
Socialism/group-centric society
In the end...there can be only one

[Dark Skies]

And if islam has been spread by the sword...how well will the nuclear sword spread it? At least, I imagine that is what they are thinking.

[redgolum]

I suspect you are right.

Truth of the matter, the moderates of the region have lost. The "common" people see no or little benefits to the oil profits, and the governments are more than happy to redirect the anger to "the jooows!" and Crusaders.

Remember, the Pakistan bomb as called the islam bomb.

[yldstrk]

Judaism and Christianity are free to believe that there are nuggets of truth in other religions. we are free to repect other truth; Islam is not. Judaism and Christianity are inclusive, Islam is exclusive. God is inclusive, room for all his creatures. The Other is not of. Some Islamic adaptations are following The Way. Others, the ones that believe in killing as a way to redemtion are not.

[mojito]

I believe that you are misunderstanding the Pope's comments: he does not believe that the word of God can be altered for expedient purposes. Rather he is making a distinction between a faith that is essentially totalitarian in it's conception of how men should live in society, and the Christian faith, in which men can chose freely how to govern themselves.

[2 Kool 2 Be 4-Gotten]

Islam can be reformed, and will be reformed, just like a puppy can be trained or a horse can be broken.

However, it won't happen just be offering islam tricks to sit up and beg, or roll over.

It's going to require means that are much more, shall we say, persuasive.

[The Shootist]

Since I believe that the Bible is the unchanging word of God, I suppose that I too am stuck with a text that cannot be adapted

If so, are you still "suffer(ing) not a witch to live"?

[The Lumster]

If so, are you still "suffer(ing) not a witch to live"?

Tha old testament covenant laws were applicable only to the nation of Israel. They are not applicable to the modern church.

[Campion]

So the Pope thinks that the bible is adaptable and thus can (and must) be changed to mean whatever we want it to mean

That's not remotely close to what he means. He means that the Bible was given through humans to a human community to understand and apply to their situation, and to situations not directly described in the Bible.

but the Koran is a direct unchanging word from God even though it came through Mohammed.

Orthodox Muslims apparently don't believe that. They believe that the Koran prexisted all things in the mind of God, and was dictated to Mohammed by an angel, word-for-word. Mohammend simply acted as a scribe.

[Campion]

Tha old testament covenant laws were applicable only to the nation of Israel. They are not applicable to the modern church.

So much for the "unchanging word of God", huh?

"Rule #1: If the Pope does it, it's wrong. Rule #2: if the Pope seems right, see rule #1"

[The Lumster]

I believe that you are misunderstanding the Pope's comments: he does not believe that the word of God can be altered for expedient purposes

And I believe you are making excuses for what he actually said. He stated that there is:
an inner logic to the Christian Bible, which permits it and requires it to be adapted and applied to new situations

I'll take him at his word. He believes the Bible can and must be adapted. I disagree.

All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 1 Tim 3:16

[rpage3]

See my post # 6 on this thread:


http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1277705/posts

Is it possible that the MSM know that this is true and therefore does not care to mention it? I mean, how often do we see reports of, "the sun will rise tomorrow morning?"

[The Lumster]

They believe that the Koran prexisted all things in the mind of God

And we believe the word prexisted all things because it is God

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. John 1:1