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1 posted on 01/23/2006 7:26:54 AM PST by ZGuy
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To: ZGuy
In our secular, post-religious society...

Amazing, I stopped reading after only 6(5.5 perhaps) words. I think that is a new record for me.

2 posted on 01/23/2006 7:29:24 AM PST by SengirV
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To: ZGuy

........and Global Warming Theorists don't, I suppose?...........


4 posted on 01/23/2006 7:31:48 AM PST by Red Badger (LUKE 22:36 JESUS: "........and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one."........)
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To: ZGuy

In the 1960's the federal government started pouring money into science. At the time, I disapproved, to the amazement of my colleagues, saying eventually scientists will tell the government whatever it wnats to hear. I think that has ocme full flower now.


6 posted on 01/23/2006 7:34:44 AM PST by Marylander
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To: ZGuy
"In our secular, post-religious society, the figure of the cassock-clad priest has been replaced by that of the white-coated scientist. Dispensing wisdom from the laboratory -- his every word is awaited breathlessly by a world thirsting for knowledge."

In 1882, Friedrich Nietzsche's Parable of the Madman predicted that European civilization was on the threshold of absolute freedom and power, unshackled by any notion of God, who was not only dead, but moldering. And if any worshippers yet remained it was because they had not yet heard the great news.

At the age of 45, Nietzsche suffered a mental breakdown from undetermined causes, embracing a horse among other things and asking it to sing. Yet even so, he would have been surprised to learn that in barely a century, the European civilization he believed to be on the brink of "a higher history than all history hitherto" -- would have collapsed upon itself, eviscerated by two world wars and terminal demographics; that churches, now called mosques, would be filled with worshippers from Indonesia, North Africa and the Middle East.

If the Madman came to 21st century Paris, he might announce the death of other gods, alike without success. He would have come too early, the harbinger of an event that had not yet reached the ears of men. The tidings he would bring would be unfamiliar, "and yet they have done it themselves".

Return of the Madman

7 posted on 01/23/2006 7:34:53 AM PST by SteveMcKing
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To: ZGuy

Sensational puff piece. In other words, "what a pant load".


8 posted on 01/23/2006 7:37:23 AM PST by RadioAstronomer (Senior member of Darwin Central)
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To: ZGuy

Just what good has the scientist brought? Everyday we hear of people dying of dropsy, consumption, the vapors, broken hearts, boils, exzema, and the dread strep throat.


9 posted on 01/23/2006 7:41:40 AM PST by sully777 (Blame Canada!)
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To: ZGuy

OTOH, many scientists have and are doing extensive research, to assist humans in obtaining better health
and alternative treatments as we continue to live in a growing toxic world.


10 posted on 01/23/2006 7:44:21 AM PST by laney (Happy 2006!)
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To: ZGuy
...contemporary science is now so corrupted by the lust for loot and glory that nothing less than root-and-branch reform can save it.

An excellent article.

The author concentrates on medical research, but it applies to climatology as well.

"separation of science and state"...I like it.

11 posted on 01/23/2006 7:46:07 AM PST by kidd
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To: ZGuy
What a moron.

Money is thrown at science because it performs valuable work and we hope to encourage it. Corruption is part of the price.

13 posted on 01/23/2006 7:51:42 AM PST by liberallarry
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To: ZGuy

And who was it who caught these frauds? Other scientists, that's who. The wailing in this article about scientific fraud is documenting the successful efforts of science to police itself. There might be a rationalization to build a "double blind" process of funding where scientists don't know where their money is coming from, and donors don't know where it's going to eliminate the incentive for shading data. But this article doesn't make it's point well by painting science as an association of frauds.


16 posted on 01/23/2006 8:34:07 AM PST by narby (Hillary! The Wicked Witch of the Left)
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To: ZGuy
Why it should be any different for the secular bishops of science is difficult to discern.

Because they're our society's high priests.

18 posted on 01/23/2006 8:36:54 AM PST by Aquinasfan (Isaiah 22:22, Rev 3:7, Mat 16:19)
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To: ZGuy
I have some major complaints about funding of science by government (i.e., taxpayers).

First, the lust for government money has caused universities to turn their backs on their teaching mission. Faculty are rewarded for bringing in money, not for teaching.

Second, the federal funding agencies have too much influence over what gets studied. For all the talk about peer review, it is a dirty little secret that program managers can steer the money where they think it should go.

Third, the bureaucrats at the funding agencies are risk-averse, and therefore prefer to spend money on "safe" research. That means they will fund the currently fashionable research being done by established researchers.

Fourth, in general, government cannot be expected to do spend taxpayer money efficiently. The money might be better spent closer to the source.

23 posted on 01/23/2006 8:50:10 AM PST by Logophile
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To: All
You can't fall into the trap of painting all science as bad, IMO. There has undoubtedly been a lot of good that has come from scientific research. Not to mention the fact that the only way one can find out if scientists are "wrong" is for other scientists to prove what they did to be false. There are still plenty of good folks in the various scientific professions that really are trying to make the world a better place.

That being said, there are a few that definitely say stuff just to grub for funding. There are plenty of other people (such as Michael Crichton) who have suggested this in a way that is less likely to offend scientists. I don't think it's going to be an easy thing to get the corruption like that out of the professions, though. The only way is for those critical of it to find a greater voice.

It's not just science subsidies, either. There's plenty of crap that happens with other subsidies that is embarrassing at best and horrendous wastefulness at its worst.

The article makes some points, but the rhetoric will ruffle feathers and it a bit over the top, IMO.

24 posted on 01/23/2006 8:51:10 AM PST by AZ_Cowboy ("There they go again...")
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To: ZGuy
It may be time to curtail public financing of scientific research

And the arts, and agriculture, and commercial development, and the health industry, and the ACLU, andandandand....

26 posted on 01/23/2006 8:55:42 AM PST by LexBaird ("I'm not questioning your patriotism, I'm answering your treason."--JennysCool)
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To: ZGuy
The unholy lust of scientists...

"You and me, baby, ain't nothin' but mammals, "So let's do it like they do on the Discovery Channel...."

27 posted on 01/23/2006 8:58:13 AM PST by RichInOC (...oops, did I sing that out loud? Bad Rich. BAD Rich.)
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To: ZGuy
I share the late philosopher Paul Feyerabend's demand for a separation of science and state

LOL

38 posted on 01/23/2006 10:13:03 AM PST by RightWhale (pas de lieu, Rhone que nous)
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To: ZGuy

bump


44 posted on 01/23/2006 10:45:40 AM PST by VOA
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To: ZGuy

Scientists have feet of clay just like any humans.
Where some of them get into trouble...is pretending that they don't.


45 posted on 01/23/2006 10:47:26 AM PST by VOA
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To: ZGuy
I've often said that scientific effort is primarily motivated by money and politics. But of course there are what I call 'evols' who claim science and scientists are not subject to any motivation other than a 'search for truth.'

So naive.

46 posted on 01/23/2006 10:52:45 AM PST by MEGoody (Ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.)
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To: ZGuy
I venture to suggest that contemporary science is now so corrupted by the lust for loot and glory that nothing less than root-and-branch reform can save it.

It's not nearly as bad as journalism. At least scientists police themselves.

So far no one has contradicted Mary Mapes on her assessment of what constitutes good journalism. Also the writer of this piece has included several errors.

47 posted on 01/23/2006 11:02:32 AM PST by <1/1,000,000th%
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