North American Cooperative Security Act

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d109:s.00853 ^

[vrwc0915]

ping for later

[vrwc0915]

To the freetratiors who would condemn 80% of the population to life in an anarchic third world cesspool while you live in you opulent gated community just so you could meet the analysts earnings expectations by using illegal labor and selling our sovereignty which was bought with the blood of many good men who believed in something more than the Almighty dollar :

Remember there are many who have taken this oath and do honor it to this day "I do solemnly swear that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same! " I hope your gated community has good private security after the fall. Because it is clear to those who bear true faith and allegiance which category you are in!

[B4Ranch]

It is certainly nice to have others stand up and announce that they believe as I and a few other loud mouthed Patriots do.

From the number of emails I receive, this group is getting larger by the minute. I try to convince the shy ones to stand up and say exactly what they are thinking on FR because I know they will get your support.

[Magnum44]

Your comment makes no sense. Biometric data, like electronic thumb prints, or retina scans, is cataloged and verified at points of entry. It is not issued.

[hedgetrimmer]

One wonders what initiatives they are pursuing to support this objective:

***

The Intelligence Reform and Terrorism Prevention Act of 2004 also contains a provision addressing the documentary requirements for travel within the Western Hemisphere, referred to as the Western Hemisphere Travel Initiative (WHTI). The legislation requires that the Secretary of Homeland Security, in consultation with the Secretary of State, develop and implement by January 1, 2008 a plan to require U.S. citizens and non-U.S. citizens currently exempt from presenting a passport for travel within the Western Hemisphere to present a passport or other authorized documentation that denotes identity and citizenship when entering the United States. The Department of State, after analyzing the scope of WHTI and other projected growth in passport demand, expects that applications for passports will total about 12 million in FY-2006, about 14 million in FY-2007 and reach a potentially sustainable annual demand of 17 million by FY-2008.

As the Department of State develops plans to address the increase in demand for U.S. passports resulting from normal growth in international travel and the WHTI, we are dedicated to ensuring that security vulnerabilities are not inadvertently created by our efforts to address the increase in workload. While keeping security imperatives in mind, the Department of State also recognizes its responsibility to adjudicate passport applications in a timely and efficient manner to facilitate the travel of U.S. citizens. The free movement of people and goods is essential to U.S. national security, as is our international engagement through personal, commercial, educational and research activities with other nations. We are actively pursuing initiatives to improve the U.S. Passport Program designed to support both of these objectives.

[savedbygrace]

Under the terms of this bill, thugs and terrorists can be issued IDs that contain biometric data. They can do this because corrupt Mexucan officials can be bribed with wads of cash. Once issued these IDs, the thugs and terrorists can then pass through any other checkpoints along the way.

[Magnum44]

Again, biometric data is unique to each of us and is verifiable at each check point. Like computer workstations that need thumbprint scans to log in. Of course they can issue visas, and the biometric gets put into the database, and we can track who they are, that is the point. At any check point when a set of biometrics turns up that we are on the look out for we can ID him. So what if they have to pay to get a visa to cross mexicos southern border. If its a terrorist, we can track and arrest him now. Your arguments make no sense.

[savedbygrace]

No, you're making assumptions about the extent of existing databases, vs. existing thugs and terrorists.

[Magnum44]

And your expertise is based on what?

[stephenjohnbanker]

BTTT

[savedbygrace]

Why should any particular expertise be required to make that common sense observation? Or do you think that all the terrorists and thugs in the world are in one database or another, along with their biometics (prints, iris, voice, whatever)?

[Magnum44]

So far I havent seen the common sense in your observation. But you claimed that networked databases do not exist or are not being populated. And I would argue that you are wrong. I would also argue that biometric data collection at any countries port of entry has added value to those databases. Once someone is in the database, from whatever source, movement patterns can be observed, and suspicious activity can be pulled out of seemingly harmless individual behaviour. If someone comes into southern mexico from central america claiming to seek to be a mexican tourist, then that same ID pops up at a US border crossing the next day, that individual could be flagged for watch. If he shows up at an airport for a flight, he could be questioned or detained or, wishfully thinking, deported. You would argue that such data exchange has no value. I disagree.

[Calpernia]

It looks like some of the docs I have that I'm in the middle of uploading may be related to this:

http://www.nationalpropertyowners.org/about.html

See the European Trade docs I have up so far. Check back. I'm only in the middle of reading.

[savedbygrace]

No, I am saying the databases are woefully incomplete, and it only takes a few dozen terrorists slipping through to destroy us. So, I am concluding that this plan leaves us no safer, for all the millions, maybe billions, that it will cost.

Now that you have made it clear you concluded from what I wrote that I was saying "networked databases do not exist or are not being populated" and "such data exchange has no value", it's understandable that you would fail to see the common sense and the logic that I expressed. You are not comprehending what is written, or you are purposely misrepresenting it as a cheap debate trick.

Either way, you're not holding up your end of the debate. And you're becoming tiresome.

Ultimately, fraud and corruption will doom this plan, represented by this bill, to fail, with many Americans at risk as a result.

This is a bad and dangerous bill, regardless of your sugarcoating.

[Magnum44]

Please, get tired of debating, I grew tired of trying to educate you three posts ago. I wont expend any more energy.

[Ben Ficklin]

I merly posted the link to show that, first, perimeter security is old news and that, second, economic intergration is even older news. In spite of those facts, about every week to ten days, some one posts article on the subject as if it were a revelation.

BTW, in these coming times of post-national utopia, the old demarcations of left and right are no longer adequate. It is more accurate to use "the left and the right against the middle". For example, you have more in common with Ralph Nader, Ceaser Chavez, and the AFL-CIO than you do with Bush and the Chamber of Commerce.

Gitit?

[mthom]

You people are as funny as you are low. Believing in countries is now a marxist doctrine? By the way. The AFL-CIO and the CoC both support McCain/Kennedy.

[mthom]

I almost would like to see you post-nationalist dreamers to get your way just to see how long it would take you to propose open borders between the countries in our EU like economic region and perhaps a new constitution. Though you deny it so fiercely now. Something tells me I could count and those things would come like lightning after the thunder.

[mthom]

thunder after lightning

[hedgetrimmer]

Believing in countries is now a marxist doctrine?

You'd have never believed it to happen in our lifetimes, would you? But now it has, because countries, citizenship and individual rights get in the way of "free trade".